Why not question the holocaust? Individuals and groups question evolution, or at least choose their place in the continuum.

Boy if I could sit down with Mr. Smith, the Flat-Eathers, some religious fundamentalists, and my best friend Mr. Jack Daniels…. it would make for a spectacular night. I’ll entertain a good conspiracy theory every now and then…. like when my sandwich from Wendy’s had mayonase when I ordered without….. OR DID IT?? AHHHH!

Ok, back to middleclassville. G’day!

Why not question the holocaust? Individuals and groups question evolution, or at least choose their place in the continuum.

Boy if I could sit down with Mr. Smith, the Flat-Eathers, some religious fundamentalists, and my best friend Mr. Jack Daniels…. it would make for a spectacular night. I’ll entertain a good conspiracy theory every now and then…. like when my sandwich from Wendy’s had mayonase when I ordered without….. OR DID IT?? AHHHH!

Ok, back to middleclassville. G’day!

Shame on you, Columbia 63. I doubt there’s any point in persuading you since you are clearly an old racist who sought this argument out, but it’s especially abhorrent that you are attempting to disguise your base hate speech as some kind of intellectual debate (which is exactly what is wrong with Holocaust deniers). So I can’t help but say something so I don’t have an aneurysm.

1. The 6 million Jews who died didn’t just come from Germany, but all over Europe and its colonies, and the fact that you even claimed that exposes either your willful ignorance or malicious intent to distort informatin. You think throwing names around will lend legitimacy to your lunacy — but you are just showing your true colors.

2. The number changed because measuring the sheer magnitude of the death took a long, long time and the effort was extremely widespread. Jews were murdered all over Europe in concentration camps, shot randomly in the streets and at death orgies like Baba Yar, tortured, died of diseases in ghettos; entire villages were razed to the ground to disappear from history. There are exhaustive records of these atrocities, including official documents and personal accounts in journals of both victims and perpetrators.

3. Nor are the numbers even the point. The systematic and cool-headed plan to destroy an entire people, beginning with discriminatory laws forbidding Jews to own businesses, to go to school, to marry non-Jews, to walk on the sidewalk — all very specifically articulated in legal documents and RECORDED SESSIONS of Final Solution meetings — is the point. It was a rational, calculated plot to not only kill but thoroughly degrade a specified ethnic/religious group to below the baseline of humanity.

In short, that is why denying the Holocaust is not simply questioning history. The proof is not a bunch of fabricated photos and accounts of lying survivors as they would have you believe, but exhaustive records from all witnesses of a major upheaval in history. Holocaust deniers deliberately ignore the evidence so they can pretend their simple-minded, malicious bigotry is simply a quest for truth (much like the current “birther” movement). I won’t read your response to this because I know nothing would bring you out of your plainly stupid hatred.

pton and I seem to be in the same boat. My analogy to the Super Bowl was merely to ease the tension that exists when talking about the Holocaust as an event.

The problem, as some have pointed out, is that often academic research into the Holocaust has been, and is still today, used as a guise for anti-Jewish means. However, that hardly means ALL academic inquiry into the topic is such a guise.

What I think isn’t be articulated enough by people in favor of more study of this particular part of history is that there is nothing we’re hoping to find out. A real academic inquiry doesn’t look to prove a predefined hypothesis, but rather gathers facts regardless of their nature.

Personally, I despise historical events that become warped and the truth is buried (Thanksgiving anyone?). I very much doubt that is the case with the Holocaust, but why NOT do as much research as is possible into one of the defining events of the past 100 years? This doesn’t meant I deny, condone, or otherwise cast an opinion on the event. As a separate matter, my feelings toward it are that it was one of the most disgusting events in history.

Notice how BC 2011 referred to someone as a racist for raising questions about a brutal war in which over 50 million people perished. He goes on to use language like bigotry and hatred. To even further his position, he compares historians to the “birther” movement. These words have been thrown around with little regard since the end of the war and the Nuremberg Trials. Tactics like this are continually used to discourage any discussion about the events.

People have always had questions about the actions of not only Germany, but the Allied forces as well. Millions and millions of innocent people met their timely demise all through Europe in the 1940′s. Rhetorical labels like “racist” only stifle understanding.

Notice how BC 2011 referred to someone as a racist for raising questions about a brutal war in which over 50 million people perished. He goes on to use language like bigotry and hatred. To even further his position, he compares historians to the “birther” movement. These words have been thrown around with little regard since the end of the war and the Nuremberg Trials. Tactics like this are continually used to discourage any discussion about the events.

People have always had questions about the actions of not only Germany, but the Allied forces as well. Millions and millions of innocent people met their timely demise all through Europe in the 1940′s. Rhetorical labels like “racist” only stifle understanding.

The predicament and tragedy for authentic Jews is that some unscrupulous Zionists have seized on the horrible actions of Hitler’s Nazis against Jews to fabricate an entire industry (“The Holocaust Industry”), which they use to shield their diabolical actions from any criticism – by Jews and non-Jews. They put those guilt-ridden 2nd generation Germans under the hammer of their ‘antisemitism’ threat, while extorting $billions of “Wiedergutmachen” penance payments. Meanwhile, they get away with murder and other ghastly actions against an imprisoned Palestinian population, which they treat worse than cattle. Any thinking Jews who openly object to their diabolical behavior are labeled “self-loathing” and are threatened with persecution (Finkelstein and MANY others) and ostracism from their Jewish communities. How nasty can they get? Unfortunately, there are many like BC2011 who have been tricked and victimized by these Zionists to defend the indefensible and lash out at their critics with unequaled venom and irrationality. Unfortunately, when the chickens come home to roost (and they will), Jews, as usual, will be on the receiving end of another holocaust. Is anyone going to bother to separate Jews from Zionists? No wonder Alan Hart wrote that Zionism is the real enemy of the Jews. BINGO! Benjamin Freedman knew very well what those Zionists have been ‘up to’ for a very long time – and he warned Americans in his 1961, 1974 and other speeches. They were ‘up to’ no good again – on 911! (and on MANY other occasions).

I’m surprised no one has brought up Bradley Smith’s friend, the Jewish holocaust revisionist David Cole whose videotaped tour of Auschwitz and interview with the director of the Museum there (Franciszek Piper) showed that the Auschwitz gas chamber is a “reconstruction” made from an air raid shelter. David also appeared with Bradley Smith on Donahue, squaring off against Michael Shermer, the professional “skeptic” who is so skeptical that he is even skeptical of skepticism. David produced an impressive body of work until the Jewish Defense League (a bona fide domestic terrorist group) physically assaulted him and posted his home address online suggesting something “be done about him” until he “recanted”. It was not until I became aware of David’s predicament that I even thought of examining revisionist claims. That the brutality directed at him as a Jew passes without criticism from any quarter is proof that Zionists really are Jews’ worst enemy, and maybe always have been.

I’m surprised no one has brought up Bradley Smith’s friend, the Jewish holocaust revisionist David Cole whose videotaped tour of Auschwitz and interview with the director of the Museum there (Franciszek Piper) showed that the Auschwitz gas chamber is a “reconstruction” made from an air raid shelter. David also appeared with Bradley Smith on Donahue, squaring off against Michael Shermer, the professional “skeptic” who is so skeptical that he is even skeptical of skepticism. David produced an impressive body of work until the Jewish Defense League (a bona fide domestic terrorist group) physically assaulted him and posted his home address online suggesting something “be done about him” until he “recanted”. It was not until I became aware of David’s predicament that I even thought of examining revisionist claims. That the brutality directed at him as a Jew passes without criticism from any quarter is proof that Zionists really are Jews’ worst enemy, and maybe always have been.

oops, the last link was supposed to be to Lenny Brenner’s book on Zionist collaboration with the Nazis…

The ‘Holocaust’, as fabricated (hyped) by Zionists and the Zionist-controlled Media, is just ONE of MANY actions by Zionist Israel and its agents through which Jews (and non-Jews) will be victimized in order to advance their agenda. Today is the anniversary of 911, another ATTACK on AMERICA by Zionists. It was used to instigate the “War of Terror” (Yes, ‘of’ not ‘on’ Terror) by a bunch of ruthless Zionist Neocons, like Perle, Feith, Abrams, Zakheim (a Columbia graduate, like Obama) and MANY others. Unfortunately, when the Zionist criminals and traitors are exposed, Jews are likely to be in the sights of about 300,000,000 VERY pissed-off Americans! It’s HIGH TIME for authentic Jews in the Ivy League (and everywhere else) to expose those Zionist Jewish impostors. (Finkelstein, Freedman and many other courageous Jews lead the way). If they do not, they shall reap the whirlwind (again!).

Holy shit, Columbia63. Innocent people died. End of story. No one cares that you believe that “Zionists” may have “used” this fact to “advance their agenda” because, regardless of the exact number of deaths, no one (including you) can deny that innocents were murdered in unfathomably vast numbers. Stop trying to incite educated students into some sort of antisemitic rage, because it won’t work. Please get off the internet. Thanks.

elseY11:

Where did I deny that millions of innocent people (including Jews) died during Hitler’s reign? ‘unfathomably vast numbers’? NO! I’m not trying to incite ‘educated’ students into anything. I’m encouraging them (and anyone else) to educate themselves about Zionism and to learn to tell the difference between a Zionist and a Jew. Benjamin Freedman, a Jew and former insider of the corridors of power, revealed much about ‘Jews’ and Zionism that is as yet unknown to these ‘educated’ students. The education they will get from people like Freedman, Finkelstein, Hart, Hoffman and others, may well save their lives in the future!

You are an ignoramus! Get educated about Zionism and Judaism and learn to tell the difference. Check out Neturei Karta True Torah Jews – they have a website. They say: “Zionism is Nazism”.

I don’t know who this Anne Frank is, but I’m sure she had it coming.

I don’t know who this Anne Frank is, but I’m sure she had it coming.

In Jewish researcher David Cole’s video he points toward Princeton Jewish professor and refugee from Hitler’s Europe, Arno Meyer. In his book Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?, Meyer points out that “Sources for the study of the gas chamber are at once rare and unreliable.”

In much early Holocaust literature of the ’50s and ’60′s, including Elie Weasel’s classic Night, the original French version used the word “crematorie,” but when this was translated into English and German, the translation result was not “crematory” but rather “gas chamber.” There is no doubt that a very high number of dead bodies were at the camps and were burned. But were these bodies of victims who had just been emptied out of a homicidal gas chamber? Or were they bodies of people who had been starved, diseased, or shot?

One must realize that most of the areas of these crimes against humanity were in areas which fell under Soviet control after the war. Now, we all know that the Soviets were famous for propaganda. What is ironic about Holocaust history is that while all the mainstream historians seem to give a public front of unanimity, in reality they contest the exact details amongst themselves all the time! There was much so-called evidence that the Soviets presented to the tribunal at Nuremberg which has been since discredited, even though some of them are still taught as fact in history courses.

Discredited Charges at Nuremberg:

“Steam Chambers” at Treblinka

“Electro-Chambers”

Shrunken Heads

Human Skin Lampshades

20,000 Jews assembled in makeshift village, blown up with atomic bomb

Human Soap from Jews

Regarding that last one, iconic Holocaust historian Deborah Lipstadt (i.e. not a notorious “denier” like David Irving, for example) says: “The Nazis never used the bodies of Jews, or for that matter anyone else, for the production of soap. The soap rumor was prevalent both during and after the war. It may have had its origin in the cadaver factory atrocity story that came out of World War I. The soap rumor was thoroughly investigated during the war and proved to be untrue.”

Yet when I was being educated in high school on the Holocaust, I was taught, as unquestionable fact, that the Nazi Holocaust made other historical acts of cruelty pale in comparison, because the Nazis were so demented that they made lampshades and soap from human bodies.

Upon revising the holocaust and comparing it to other mass murders, in fact we absolutely must be on guard lest the correction of the historical record lead us to forget that indeed Nazi Germany was no better than any other imperialist European power–that is the mistake that neo-Nazis make. This is unfortunate in many ways of course, but not least because it is essential to understand the true nature of the evils of Nazism in order to see the relevant similarities to Zionism that help us to understand exactly why the Zionist political movement cannot be allowed to use the legitimate issue of genuine Jewish suffering during WW2 as a shield. The more they do, the more they emulate and in some ways even transcend Nazism.

The events of WW2 have to be seen in context to make sense, and that context is never really taught appropriately in mainstream circles. The context includes the nature of “world Jewry” in the decades preceding the rise of the Nazis. One of the most important things to understand is that the world’s Jews were not just geographically diverse, but also very markedly socio-economically stratified. What does this mean? It means in essence that despite the Zionists’ dreams (and however well-meaning they may have been) Jews were not in any real way “one people”. There were Jews of varying races and ethnicities. There were urban Jews and rural Jews. There were Jews living in countries where emancipation had been thorough and successful and there were Jews living in countries where they had not been emancipated and suffered under special laws and local prejudices.

At the very pinnacle were of course a small but siginificant number of extremely successful Jews. Not simply professionals who had done well under emancipation, but individuals who through their involvement in banking had accumulated great wealth and had naturally become influential on a global political scale. Like any elites, they were not as a rule particularly ethical, nor had they prior to the rise of political Zionism in the late 19th century seemed particularly concerned about the welfare of their less fortunate correligionists.

Where things begin to get murky are during WWI and soon after with the Bolshevik overthrow of the Tsar in Russia. The troubling nature of the debate seems to stem from the fact that the proletarian revolution included a number of prominent Russian Jews, most notably Leon Trotsky. In this light the seemingly odd connection between modern neoconservatives and Trotskyism begins to make more sense. As do the links between anti-communism (read fascism) and anti-semitism. At the same time, mainstream historians have traditionally downplayed the influence of the economic elite over President Wilson. Included among these are of course the American Rockefellers but also the European/American Warburg and European Rothschild banking families. Not only were these elites involved in the creation of the federal reserve system that served to undermine American democracy and political sovereignty, but they were also instrumental in bringing America into WWI on the side of Britain against Germany and their Turkish allies (who at the time held Palestine.)

What should becoming clear, and here I have to stop to pick the thread up later, is that we are not talking about a Jewish conspiracy by any means. We are in fact talking about a conspiracy of elite wealth and control versus popular democracy and freedom. On the one hand are the elites who have the means to influence developments on a globally coordinated scale. On the other are the masses of people who are used as pawns in the scheme. That the world’s Jews were chosen to play a major role in these events is evident. What is also evident is that they were not consulted before decisions were made that would result in a change from gradual emancipation to massive upheaval. They were instead used as were so many others to bring into being the “new world order” that we hear so much about but that often gets misunderstood–the forest of the whole being lost amid the various distractions of the myriad intrigues clouding the more simple truths.

Obviously deception and the weaving of false narratives has played a role in these developments, and we will discuss that in due order…

Upon revising the holocaust and comparing it to other mass murders, in fact we absolutely must be on guard lest the correction of the historical record lead us to forget that indeed Nazi Germany was no better than any other imperialist European power–that is the mistake that neo-Nazis make. This is unfortunate in many ways of course, but not least because it is essential to understand the true nature of the evils of Nazism in order to see the relevant similarities to Zionism that help us to understand exactly why the Zionist political movement cannot be allowed to use the legitimate issue of genuine Jewish suffering during WW2 as a shield. The more they do, the more they emulate and in some ways even transcend Nazism.

The events of WW2 have to be seen in context to make sense, and that context is never really taught appropriately in mainstream circles. The context includes the nature of “world Jewry” in the decades preceding the rise of the Nazis. One of the most important things to understand is that the world’s Jews were not just geographically diverse, but also very markedly socio-economically stratified. What does this mean? It means in essence that despite the Zionists’ dreams (and however well-meaning they may have been) Jews were not in any real way “one people”. There were Jews of varying races and ethnicities. There were urban Jews and rural Jews. There were Jews living in countries where emancipation had been thorough and successful and there were Jews living in countries where they had not been emancipated and suffered under special laws and local prejudices.

At the very pinnacle were of course a small but siginificant number of extremely successful Jews. Not simply professionals who had done well under emancipation, but individuals who through their involvement in banking had accumulated great wealth and had naturally become influential on a global political scale. Like any elites, they were not as a rule particularly ethical, nor had they prior to the rise of political Zionism in the late 19th century seemed particularly concerned about the welfare of their less fortunate correligionists.

Where things begin to get murky are during WWI and soon after with the Bolshevik overthrow of the Tsar in Russia. The troubling nature of the debate seems to stem from the fact that the proletarian revolution included a number of prominent Russian Jews, most notably Leon Trotsky. In this light the seemingly odd connection between modern neoconservatives and Trotskyism begins to make more sense. As do the links between anti-communism (read fascism) and anti-semitism. At the same time, mainstream historians have traditionally downplayed the influence of the economic elite over President Wilson. Included among these are of course the American Rockefellers but also the European/American Warburg and European Rothschild banking families. Not only were these elites involved in the creation of the federal reserve system that served to undermine American democracy and political sovereignty, but they were also instrumental in bringing America into WWI on the side of Britain against Germany and their Turkish allies (who at the time held Palestine.)

What should becoming clear, and here I have to stop to pick the thread up later, is that we are not talking about a Jewish conspiracy by any means. We are in fact talking about a conspiracy of elite wealth and control versus popular democracy and freedom. On the one hand are the elites who have the means to influence developments on a globally coordinated scale. On the other are the masses of people who are used as pawns in the scheme. That the world’s Jews were chosen to play a major role in these events is evident. What is also evident is that they were not consulted before decisions were made that would result in a change from gradual emancipation to massive upheaval. They were instead used as were so many others to bring into being the “new world order” that we hear so much about but that often gets misunderstood–the forest of the whole being lost amid the various distractions of the myriad intrigues clouding the more simple truths.

Obviously deception and the weaving of false narratives has played a role in these developments, and we will discuss that in due order…

Clapping for Tinkerbell

by John Weir

http://www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrjwclapping.html

Belief in God is different from Holocaust belief: Death reveals the outcome of Pascal’s wager; With the Holocaust, punishment for disbelief is immediate. Along with official expressions of Holocaust belief were calls for Bishop Williamson’s renewed excommunication, banishment, and denunciation of his heresy by the Pope. There can be no positions of authority for disbelievers. After the bishop refused to retract his statements – only promising to review the historical evidence – he was removed as head of a seminary in Argentina and threatened with deportation.

This is the pattern. Once a disbeliever has been identified as being employed by someone that can be publicly, politically pressured, the pressure starts to isolate and discredit the revisionist. This shows belief in the Shoah is very important for several inter-related power structures to maintain. The Shoah has certainly been called the founding myth of Israel, but it’s the founding myth of the modern German republic too. American foreign policy is also dependent on the Hitler paradigm; Nazi analogies are always made when the U.S. State Department threatens another country.

PROFESSION OF FAITH
Group activities promote group cohesion. The rapid punishment of non-conformity discourages questioning of authority. Ritual is established to give insiders the sense of worth and security associated with membership. In hierarchical structures, ritual plays a huge role in establishing authority. Authority is intolerant of anything that undermines its credibility. The Holocaust myth is state-sponsored, foundation-of-the-German-Republic, official. It’s protected like an endangered species in a growing number of countries. As a result, when someone in a position of authority questions the myth, the denunciations come quickly to protect the credibility of those who endorse it.

The ritual is set. And we’ll see it again. It is reminiscent of the scene from Peter Pan by J. M. Barrie when the faerie, Tinkerbell swallows poison intended for Peter. Peter then gets the audience to demonstrate its belief in faeries by clapping to resurrect her. Not clapping would imply complicity in fatacide – the murder of a faerie. Any time the dying Holocaust story is questioned, we must demonstrate our belief by clapping for the gas chambers.
….
Make no mistake. The Nazi system of prison and work camps, like the Soviet gulag system, is to be condemned. Many Poles, Jews, and others in the Nazi occupied East were displaced, and enslaved. Their property was stolen and communities scattered. There’s nothing admirable about that. Even so, it’s inexcusable to accuse anyone of imaginary crimes.

HarvardGrad, et al:

You’ve put together (connected) some interesting pieces of The Puzzle. The Puzzle is the purpose of human existence (why are we here). The complete understanding of The Puzzle requires far more than a collection of important facts (truths), placed in their correct context. This world consists of far more than what we usually describe as ‘natural’ or ‘physical’. There is an entire universe of ‘supernatural’ or ‘spiritual’ truths, things and events, which requires more than intellect to makes ‘sense’ of. You might call it a ’6th sense’. In order to obtain (almost) complete understanding of The Puzzle (one of the pieces is the Holocaust), it is MANDATORY for spiritual understanding to precede the knowledge which can be understood with our brain. The interesting and wonderful and awesome truth is that when knowledge of The Puzzle is acquired in the necessary order, you finally begin to SEE! and there are NO contradictions between spiritual knowledge and the ‘natural’ and true history of the world and of the human race. Everything makes ‘sense’!
…
What am I talking about?
…
Google ‘sons of light’. (“in lumine Tuo, videbimus lumen”)
…
PS Are ‘imaginary crimes’ the same as ‘thought crimes’? Do ‘thought crimes’ deserve ‘thought punishment’?

If you visit http://www.rense.com you will SEE! another interesting piece of The Puzzle (8th Anniversary of 911)

You go BC 2011! I always knew there was a reason I was dating Barnard girls the whole time I was at Columbia…and at HLS. hahaha

Seriously though, that’s the most succinct, cogent rebuttal to this denial nonsense I’ve come across, I will be copying and pasting that for future reference whenever I come across one of these cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs holocaust deniers or “investigators” or whatever they call themselves. Anything longer would be tedious, anything shorter would be insufficient. Clearly somebody’s been learning something in college, unlike half the people leaving comments.