Middle-Aged White Guy Sues Columbia for Discrimination
An Interview with Roy Hollander, Men’s Rights Pioneer
Roy Den Hollander — Columbia B-school grad and self-described “anti-feminist” — took aim this week at his alma mater’s Institute for Research on Women and Gender. In a lawsuit charging sexual discrimination, Hollander calls the institute “a bastion of bigotry against men.” Using Title IX as an “analogy,” Hollander adds the Columbia suit to a growing stable of “Men’s Rights” crusades, including a lawsuit protesting Ladies’ Nights at bars, and another against VAWA, the Violence Against Women Act.
In an hour-long phone interview, Hollander waxes poetic on physical desire, his background as a draft-dodger, and the best places in New York for middle-aged dudes seeking jail-bait booty (dance class). As for Women’s Studies at CU:
The whole program is about benefiting females and teaching that guys are evil and that guys are responsible for all the world’s evils.
He also told me about his “Russian mafia prostitute stripper” “mistress to a Chechen warlord” ex-wife, and how she used VAWA to persecute him and/or attain US citizenship.
Roy is surprisingly interesting for a guy who spends 90% of his waking life plotting the destruction of feminism, and the other 10% trying to get laid. Our epic conversation, after the jump.
Interview edited for clarity and space. Also, to remove the part where we do a word association game that I thought would be funny, but was actually horrifying and awkward.
Tell me about your case against Columbia.
What you have at Columbia University is, you have a Women’s Studies program. Guys can take classes in it, guys can study it, but they won’t benefit it. The whole program is about benefiting females and teaching that guys are evil and that guys are responsible for all the world’s evils. And it isn’t so much the courses, but the program itself is a networking system for these women. It helps girls get jobs afterwards. It allows them get a degree in Women’s Studies, allows them to get fellowships and scholarships, allows them to become professors. In the odd case if a guy tries to get a job through the network, he’s already not going to get a job because feminists hire girls instead of guys. They’re too scared to hire a guy. The overall benefit weighs heavily on the side of girls.
What about college alumni networks? Before the 70′s, Princeton (where I went to school) was all dudes. Shouldn’t that skew the benefits of networking?
This goes to [the fact that] America today has become what I call “Feminarchy America.” If you go back forty years ago, guys had an advantage in that area [networking], though there were a lot of other problems, like getting drafted and going to Vietnam, so that sort of balances it out. But what I’m talking about is that today, when girls get out of college, they have an advantage. 51-60% of students in college are women.
So you would support an affirmative action program for men?
Well, my own personal view is that this country should become a meritocracy, not what feminists advocate, which is quota-ocracy. The person best able should always get the job, should always get in. But with my legal cases, I’m saying is, if feminists want a quota-ocracy, then along with the 51% of the best of society, they should be getting 51% of the worst of society, too. They talk about the glass ceiling but never the tombstone basement. Did you know, of the 25 most dangerous occupations in America, 90% of them are held by guys? You never hear feminists fighting for those jobs. You never hear about them fighting to get ladies into the tombstone basement.
Right now high school girls have higher SAT scores and better grades than their male peers. A meritocracy would mean fewer men in upper education.
Yes, but the meritocracy should go all the way down to the beginning. According to the high school teachers I talk to, high schools have changed their grading systems to benefit girls instead of boys. Boys are good at competition, at cramming for tests and that sort of thing. Girls are better at doing their homework consistently, and that skews the grades.
Are you familiar with Title IX?
Yes, I am.
Title IX says that if Columbia University has varsity sports for men, it has to provide equal varsity sports for women. So I’m using that varsity sports analogy by saying the Women’s Studies is the varsity sport of college co-education. Therefore, Columbia University has to provide a Men’s Studies program if they want to be equal.
Do you think you’ll win the lawsuit against Columbia?
There’s two aspects to that suit. The first one, the equal protection aspect, has a fair chance on the law. On the law, I think I should win the equal protection argument. But then you have to factor in politics, which has influence in the courts. If I lose equal protection, it will be because of politics. As I said, our country is set up in a way that benefits women. In last 40 years, feminists have acquired significant influence in the legislative branches.
The other aspect of the Columbia lawsuit is religion, which what Women’s Studies is there to teach. They teach feminism, it says so on their website, and that’s a religion. That argument is a harder sell, on the legal basis, but there’s a possibility there if you look at case law. … Part of my motivation in bringing the case is that, if the Supreme Court finds feminism to be a religion, then all the financing that the government provides to feminist organizations will have to stop. Around 800 million dollars a year goes to feminist organizations. We’re talking grants, fellowships, legal counsel, legal advice to alien wives…
I read that you were once married to a Russian stripper. Is that true?
Actually, she was a Russian mafia prostitute stripper. As a teenager she was mistress to a Chechen warlord. I found this out because I worked at Kroll Associates. Are you familiar with them?
Yes. And through my contacts from them, what I learned from Russian military intelligence, is that she and her mother were and are connected with the Chechen Special Islamic Regiment.
So what happened to the marriage?
We got a divorce. I went through all the standard divorce horror: Restraining orders, she went to the police–
That’s standard for divorce?
Yes. If you’re an alien wife, and you want to become a citizen, you need a papertrail using VAWA.
[ed: VAWA is the Violence Against Women Act. Hollander contested it in his first Men's Rights lawsuit.]
She said, “My husband showed me a knife, my husband bruised me,” and then she got a temporary restraining order. The order was later dismissed. She filed a complaint with the police that I tried to extort her but she never went forward with the complaint because she never had to. All she needed was the documents, which you can use in immigration proceedings.
So the allegations were untrue?
Well, yes, basically. She came at me twice with a knife, but since I know martial arts, it wasn’t a problem. I probably did bruise her arm. But she, you know she twisted it around, the thing about the knife, and she got the restraining order. But what matters is that the court dismissed it.
Allow me to now read a quote you gave to another journalist, during your lawsuit against Ladies’ Night: “Now all I am looking for is superficial temporary escapades with pretty young ladies… It�s harder than it was when I was younger. I only go after girls who are in their athletic prime.” Mr. Hollander, I sense a rejection complex.
“Late teens or twenties,” is what I actually said. And, you know, I understand, this is exactly what my ex-wife did. See, she was a ho. I know this because she wrote about prostitution in her diary. She was a prostitute then, and for all I know, she’s a prostitute now. She did drugs without my knowledge, and she transferred the euphoria of the drugs to me. Now, I expect that from a pretty young lady who wants something. What I didn’t expect was the reaction of the government. She violated my rights, she violated the law, there’s a sense of justice involved, but the government didn’t care because it was me, a man, asking for justice against her, a woman, who was using VAWA.
But back to my preference. All I can say is, I do what mother nature tells me. I walk into a club, I’m standing there with my buddy looking for girls to hit on try to go out with them. If I see a girl, I’m going to go up and talk to her. I see a girl and I’m attracted to her, who knows what the reason is — there is a French poet who said “For men, love goes through the eyes” — and I talk to her, and she may look at me, and if she doesn’t want me to talk to her, she’ll make it clear. I can read demeanor. But I’m just going after who I’m attracted to. For instance, I take this hip-hop class, and sometimes a middle-aged lady comes to take it, but I’m not attracted to her.
Hip-hop? You mean, like, dance classes?
Yeah, I take it at Broadway Dance Center. This is a great class, especially for guys. Once I went and there were 80 girls, and a few gay guys, and I was the only hetero man in the class.
So you’re in it for the women?
All my life I was in sports. Most recently it was martial arts, but I got to the point where I’m not as fast as I used to be, I would get cracked ribs, so I moved to doing dance to keep my cholesterol low…. So I started doing salsa. Now that is a real sexy dance. If you want– do you live in New York?
Yes, I do.
Learn salsa. You’ll have a great time. Anyway, a friend took me to hip-hop class and there was no competition. And then, it’s all that adrenaline, and endorphins, and, what’s it called, one of those other drugs that make you feel good. And all these young ladies — teens, mid twenties — they get friendlier as the class goes on. At the old place [where we took classes] there was no air conditioning, so they were all wet. Just watching those beads of sweat roll down those curves… [trails off] I’m a guy. That’s what I’m attracted to.
Shouldn’t third-wave feminism be good for you, with its emphasis on de-stigmatizing female sexuality and and promoting sex-positive ideology?
No. I mean, you’re right in some ways. I’ve met guys who say they want to use feminism to get into a girl’s pants. I call them feminist opportunists. I can’t do it. I just can’t. Something just stops me.
You draw the line at feminism.
I’m a libra. I can’t do phony opportunism just to get into a girl’s pants. My friends say, tell the girls you’ve got money, but the truth is, after my jihada [ed: Hollander refers to his crusade for Men's Rights as a "jihada, a Seven Years' War"], I’ve got no money, so I’m not going to say that. I just can’t. I never cheated on my ex-wife, and what a fool I was, she was out there ho-ing it the whole time.
Did you have any children?
No, thank goodness. Imagine if I’d had a son. How could I tell my kid his mom was a Russian prostitute? She was definitely a prostitute. I have affidavits.
How do the female members of your family feel about your work?
I have an older brother and that’s the last of the family, so I don’t really have any female family, per se. As far as the girls in my life, before divorce I had a handful of ladies in my life I considered friends. But when I saw what happened, what the feminists had done, and I saw what their reactions were [his lady friends'] and they said get on with your life, go earn some money– well, I cut them all out of my life. The relationships I’m going after now are superficial.
Will you marry again?
I will never marry again, in this life or the next life, if there is one.
Do you ever think there’s truth to what those women’s said? About moving on?
No. This has been the best part of my life. I’m broke, I’m not making any money, I dont know where I’m going to make any money to go to a club this weekend, but for me this is fun beecause I’m fighting for something I believe in. It’s the same reason I was against the war [Vietnam]. I was in SDS. I campaigned for Robert F. Kennedy.
Did feminism irk you back then, too?
I’ve always been opposed to feminists and feminism, except for maybe for 10 minutes many years ago, when I was hitting on a pretty young feminist. … This gets me to the point of aging myself. I won’t tell people how old I am. I look much younger than I am, and for some young ladies of a certain age I’ve already ruined myself [because] the New Yorker did an article on me, after which I was doomed. … But I was a member of SDS, I didn’t want to go to Vietnam, I was a draft-dodger.
Did you go to Canada?
No, I went to Boston University. A lucky incident occurred. I had an old lacrosse knee injury and I re-injured it. A doctor had a son in same position that I was in, and he wrote me a note, and I got out of the draft.
You hurt your knee on purpose, to get out of the war?
No. You don’t get that kind of injury on purpose. [laughs] What you’d do on purpose is what a friend of mine did. He put a 22-bullet through his foot.
Is that why you hate feminists? Because, during the war, men were losing their rights and getting drafted, while women were becoming feminists and getting more?
No. What I cared about was what applied to guys. Feminism started picking up steam in the early 70′s. Now, a guy’s born, and let’s say he has the draft. He’s susceptible. He has that, and then he has the benefit of above-the-glass [ceiling] jobs. The feminist movement says, we want 51% of benefits. … I don’t think women should have less. I think it should be equal.
As a woman, is there anything I can do to help Men’s Rights?
You can go to my website and send me a donation. I’ve gotten 500, 600 dollars so far. But you bring up a good point: Outside of that, there isn’t a place that guys can go. If you want to be a feminist and you want to help the feminist movement, you can go to NOW, which has 5000 members and contacts all over the place. … There aren’t many organizations doing that for men.
Why is that?
I dont know. I cant figure it out for myself.
Could it be that men don’t need a Men’s Rights movement?
UPDATE! Roy just e-mailed me some follow-up thoughts:
Maureen,Thanks for your time, you ask good questions. The one I believe I danced around was on Affirmative Action. Here’s a quote that communicates my view:
“When was the last time a female was lynched, shot dead on the front stoop of her home, or on the balcony of the motel she was staying in. There’s no comparison between blacks and females. For the past four centuries, the institutions of this nation have had their boot heels on the back of the necks of blacks. Over that same period white females and feminists have received nothing but preferential treatment.”
Thanks again. I’ll probably vote for O’Bama