According to the WSJ, Collegiate School is Best Ivy Feeder

by | November 30, 2007 at 9:00 pm

No, actually that headline is totally false. It belongs to the more interesting article the WSJ should have written. But in any case Collegiate does have the highest percentage of students who enroll in either “Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Williams, Pomona, Swarthmore, the University of Chicago and Johns Hopkins” in case that motley group means anything to you.

In this article, which is clearly aimed at soliciting the self-satisfied clucks of its affluent readership, the WSJ employs what is possibly the most dubious methodology of all time in order to produce a fancy ranking of high-schools. See if this exercise makes any sense to you:

Weekend Journal looked at the freshman classes at eight top colleges — Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Williams, Pomona, Swarthmore, the University of Chicago and Johns Hopkins — and compiled a list of the students’ high-school alma maters. The survey ranked the high schools based on the number of students sent to those eight colleges, divided by the high school’s number of graduates in 2007, limiting the scope to schools that had senior classes of at least 50. The “success rate” column represents the percentage of students in each high-school’s graduating class that attended one of our chosen colleges.

Pomona, seriously? In any case, all of the usual suspects put in an appearance, NYC private schools (Collegiate, Trinity, Chapin, Brearley), New England boarding schools (Andover, Exeter, Groton, Deerfield), the famous magnet schools (TJ, that school in Illinois that’s like TJ) , and the schools that make local sense (Princeton High School) But there are also some schools nobody saw coming, like Daewoo Foreign Language High School, located in Seoul.

After the jump — the chart of schools, with juicy glosses like, “The school, founded in 1635, sent 25 kids to Harvard–more than any other high school on our list,” and “Many students at the Jewish day school spend a year in Israel before college, which the school says may affect its numbers in our survey.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HIGH SCHOOL    CITY    STATE/ COUNTRY    SENIOR CLASS SIZE    STUDENTS SENT IN 2007    SUCCESS RATE    CURRENT TUITION    COMMENT   
Collegiate School New York N.Y. 50 13 26.0% 29,100 Just over 600 boys make up the student body from Kindergarten through 12th grade at this small private school.
Brearley School New York N.Y. 51 12 23.5% 31,300 The all-girls school says on its Web site that it sent a total of 93 kids to the Ivy League in the last five years.
Chapin School New York N.Y. 58 13 22.4% 29,100 Kindergartners at this all-girls school learn creative writing; third-graders study yoga.
Polytechnic School Pasadena Calif. 87 17 19.5% 23,750 School sent 9 kids to Stanford last year, more than to any other college.
University of Chicago Lab Schools Chicago Ill. 113 22 19.5% 20,445 College counseling office recently hired a former University of Chicago admissions officer.
College Preparatory School Oakland Calif. 86 15 17.4% 26,850 School’s director of college counseling worked in the University of Pennsylvania admissions office for eight years.
Trinity School New York N.Y. 116 20 17.2% 30,120 School will celebrate its 300th birthday next year.
Phillips Academy Andover Mass. 327 52 15.9% 29,000* School says that about 10% of its students are from outside the U.S. and 35% are students of color.
Delbarton School Morristown N.J. 116 18 15.5% 23,600 Independent school for boys is led by an order of Benedictine monks; about 30% of students are non-Catholic.
Phillips Exeter Academy Exeter N.H. 317 47 14.8% 28,200* This year Exeter announced it will waive tuition for students whose family income is under $75,000.
Milton Academy Milton Mass. 184 27 14.7% 31,175* School requires seniors to take a course on transition to adult life. Students do mock college interviews
Groton School Groton Mass. 83 12 14.5% 31,530* Students are required to write two college essays summer before senior year, which are critiqued by faculty.
Daewon Foreign Language High School Seoul South Korea 78 11 14.1% 05,000 School is divided into two separate programs; one for students planning to attend university in South Korea, the other for those bound for U.S. colleges. Our class-size figure reflects the U.S.-bound track
Lawrenceville School Lawrenceville N.J. 239 33 13.8% 32,110* School sent 16 kids to Princeton last year; since 2003, it says it has sent 59 students there.
Kent Place School Summit N.J. 59 8 13.6% 26,818 Director of college advising worked in undergraduate admissions at Columbia and Georgetown universities.
Hunter College High School New York N.Y. 177 24 13.6% 0 The public school, administered by Hunter College, limits 7th grade applicants to kids who scored at least 90% in reading and math on standardized tests.
Rivers School Weston Mass. 74 10 13.5% 30,500 Applications to Rivers increased 20% over the past year, and ninth grade applications rose 27%, school says.
Saint Ann’s School Brooklyn N.Y. 76 10 13.2% 25,500 School has an arts-centered approach; poetry teacher starts working with kids as young as 5.
San Francisco University High School San Francisco Calif. 92 12 13.0% 28,725 Last year’s seniors scored about 10% higher on SATs than previous class, says director of college counseling.
Menlo School Atherton Calif. 139 18 12.9% 29,400 School offers a program that pairs kids with parents to discuss college, careers and community service.
St. Paul’s School Concord N.H. 150 19 12.7% 39,300 The boarding-only school now offers a “gut check” for seniors, with faculty reading college essays in three minutes, as a college admissions officer might.
Harker School San Jose Calif. 167 20 12.0% 29,894 Five studentsfrom Harker were selected as a youth delegation to the G8 conference in Germany this year.
John Burroughs School St. Louis Mo. 97 11 11.3% 18,575 School has one of the lowest tuitions of the U.S. private schools in our study. Midwestern schools generally cost less than those on the coasts.
Rye Country Day School Rye N.Y. 92 10 10.9% 27,500 (11-12th grades) School says that since 1996, 97% of kids taking the Advanced Placement BC Calculus course received perfect scores on the AP exam.
Korean Minjok Leadership Academy Gangwon Province South Korea 133 14 10.5% 16,000 School in South Korea’s Gangwon-do province requires students to speak only English for many classes.
Buckingham Browne & Nichols Cambridge Mass. 115 12 10.4% 31,440 School opened $26 million visual and performing arts center this year.
Princeton High School Princeton N.J. 299 31 10.4% 0 This year, school sent 19 kids to Princeton University, which is across the street from the high school.
Ramaz Upper School New York N.Y. 100 10 10.0% 20,000 Many students at the Jewish day school spend a year in Israel before college, which the school says may affect its numbers in our survey.
Stuyvesant High School New York N.Y. 674 67 9.9% 0 Selective public high school specializing in math and science says it sent 17 kids to Harvard last year.
Head-Royce School Oakland Calif. 81 8 9.9% 25,590 School opened a new building devoted to world languages this year, and recently added Mandarin classes
Regis High School New York N.Y. 125 12 9.6% 0 Tuition-free Catholic boys school says it drew more than 2,300 prospective students to recent open houses
Blake School Minneapolis Minn. 127 12 9.4% 19,900 Minnesota school has both alpine and nordic skiing teams.
Illinois Mathematics And Science Academy Aurora Ill. 203 19 9.4% 0 School requires kids to participate in an “intersession” in January, a break from regular studies with courses like “Exploring the Meaning of Life: Why It All Matters.”
Hotchkiss School Lakeville Conn. 172 16 9.3% 32,400* New headmaster is a former head of schools in Botswana and Wales.
Bishop’s School La Jolla Calif. 120 11 9.2% 24,400 A Bishop’s graduate won the Olympic trials in laser sailing-competing in a small single-handed boat-and will participate in the Olympics in China next year.
Thomas Jefferson High School For Science And Technology Alexandria Va. 428 39 9.1% 0 Competitive magnet school for science-minded kids sent 13 students to MIT this year.
Lakeside School Seattle Wash. 132 12 9.1% 22,160 Students can’t graduate without at least 80 hours of community service and a weeklong outdoor program.
Deerfield Academy Deerfield Mass. 188 17 9.0% 27,642* School asks parents to submit anecdotes about their kids to inform college counselors’ recommendation letters.
St. John’s School Houston Texas 122 11 9.0% 16,825 Students can take educational summer trips with faculty to places like Indian monasteries or the French Alps.
Boston Latin School Boston Mass. 381 33 8.7% 0 The school, founded in 1635, sent 25 kids to Harvard–more than any other high school on our list.

 

(Full disclosure: various editors attended Andover and Ramaz)

 

 
160 Comments | |
 
 Print This Post
 
Read more: ,
← Older Comments
Newer Comments →
  • pali9

    First, everyone’s right that the colleges selected are ridiculous. Second, very surprised not to see Harvard-Westlake on here. They send like 30 kids to Yale every year it seems.

  • pali9

    First, everyone’s right that the colleges selected are ridiculous. Second, very surprised not to see Harvard-Westlake on here. They send like 30 kids to Yale every year it seems.

  • pali9

    First, everyone’s right that the colleges selected are ridiculous. Second, very surprised not to see Harvard-Westlake on here. They send like 30 kids to Yale every year it seems.

  • very true

    @pali9: That’s so true. Harvard-Westlake is a lot better than all of those California schools up there.

  • very true

    @pali9: That’s so true. Harvard-Westlake is a lot better than all of those California schools up there.

  • very true

    @pali9: That’s so true. Harvard-Westlake is a lot better than all of those California schools up there.

  • <3 ivygate <3

    i’m totally using “middle class” as an epithet from now on.

  • <3 ivygate <3

    i’m totally using “middle class” as an epithet from now on.

  • Cool-umbia ’08

    I’m just happy to see people attempt to solve America’s socioeconomic divide problem on IvyGate’s comments.

    Public school or bust!

  • Cool-umbia ’08

    I’m just happy to see people attempt to solve America’s socioeconomic divide problem on IvyGate’s comments.

    Public school or bust!

  • brown

    “Still, I feel like the benefits you get out of a private college are far greater than those of a private high school.”

    And you know this how? In fact, I’d argue the opposite, having been to both myself…

  • brown

    “Still, I feel like the benefits you get out of a private college are far greater than those of a private high school.”

    And you know this how? In fact, I’d argue the opposite, having been to both myself…

  • brown

    “Still, I feel like the benefits you get out of a private college are far greater than those of a private high school.”

    And you know this how? In fact, I’d argue the opposite, having been to both myself…

  • d08

    the benefits of a private college are far larger than a private high school because employers and grad schools don’t give a shit where you went to high school if you went to a quality college, and nearly all of those are private. the opposite is not true–no one who went to SUNY Brockport via Collegiate is getting a job except through his/her parents

  • d08

    the benefits of a private college are far larger than a private high school because employers and grad schools don’t give a shit where you went to high school if you went to a quality college, and nearly all of those are private. the opposite is not true–no one who went to SUNY Brockport via Collegiate is getting a job except through his/her parents

  • d08

    the benefits of a private college are far larger than a private high school because employers and grad schools don’t give a shit where you went to high school if you went to a quality college, and nearly all of those are private. the opposite is not true–no one who went to SUNY Brockport via Collegiate is getting a job except through his/her parents

  • @ d08

    You’re missing the part where the benefits are not JUST my future employment. My prep school had a greater influence over who I am, my academic abilities, and my goals than Brown has ever had. For me, it wasn’t about college admissions or grad school or future employers. It was about an invaluable opportunity in and of itself.

  • @ d08

    You’re missing the part where the benefits are not JUST my future employment. My prep school had a greater influence over who I am, my academic abilities, and my goals than Brown has ever had. For me, it wasn’t about college admissions or grad school or future employers. It was about an invaluable opportunity in and of itself.

  • @ d08

    You’re missing the part where the benefits are not JUST my future employment. My prep school had a greater influence over who I am, my academic abilities, and my goals than Brown has ever had. For me, it wasn’t about college admissions or grad school or future employers. It was about an invaluable opportunity in and of itself.

  • who cares?

    Andrew Schlosser??

  • who cares?

    Andrew Schlosser??

  • who cares?

    Andrew Schlosser??

  • why08

    I know for a fact I got much more out of my private school than I did from my education at Yale. I don’t know whether it’s fair to compare a high school and a college, as I do believe the law of diminishing marginal returns holds at least somewhat in education – at least within the same field. But I’d say quality of instruction was certainly superior back in school and said school had much more of a positive influence over my identity than college did. As for job benefits, I was unpleasantly surprised at how little the Yale name gets you in a shitty job market straight out of school, especially through on campus recruiting.

  • why08

    I know for a fact I got much more out of my private school than I did from my education at Yale. I don’t know whether it’s fair to compare a high school and a college, as I do believe the law of diminishing marginal returns holds at least somewhat in education – at least within the same field. But I’d say quality of instruction was certainly superior back in school and said school had much more of a positive influence over my identity than college did. As for job benefits, I was unpleasantly surprised at how little the Yale name gets you in a shitty job market straight out of school, especially through on campus recruiting.

  • why08

    I know for a fact I got much more out of my private school than I did from my education at Yale. I don’t know whether it’s fair to compare a high school and a college, as I do believe the law of diminishing marginal returns holds at least somewhat in education – at least within the same field. But I’d say quality of instruction was certainly superior back in school and said school had much more of a positive influence over my identity than college did. As for job benefits, I was unpleasantly surprised at how little the Yale name gets you in a shitty job market straight out of school, especially through on campus recruiting.

  • 2006

    WSJ used to do its high school ranking using acceptance to IVY LEAGUE schools where St. Anne’s in Brooklyn, Dalton, Collegiate, Horace Mann, Exeter and Andover sent ~30% and above to Ivy League schools.

    JHU, Pomona, and U Chicago?

    Seems like one of the WSJ people wanted to get his son into Collegiate

    ( most boarding schools are hurt because they are so big; ie horace mann sends something like 10 kids a year to harvard which is like roughly 10% of its class, wherease exter would have to send a huge amount of kids like 50 for that percentage)

  • 2006

    WSJ used to do its high school ranking using acceptance to IVY LEAGUE schools where St. Anne’s in Brooklyn, Dalton, Collegiate, Horace Mann, Exeter and Andover sent ~30% and above to Ivy League schools.

    JHU, Pomona, and U Chicago?

    Seems like one of the WSJ people wanted to get his son into Collegiate

    ( most boarding schools are hurt because they are so big; ie horace mann sends something like 10 kids a year to harvard which is like roughly 10% of its class, wherease exter would have to send a huge amount of kids like 50 for that percentage)

  • 2006

    WSJ used to do its high school ranking using acceptance to IVY LEAGUE schools where St. Anne’s in Brooklyn, Dalton, Collegiate, Horace Mann, Exeter and Andover sent ~30% and above to Ivy League schools.

    JHU, Pomona, and U Chicago?

    Seems like one of the WSJ people wanted to get his son into Collegiate

    ( most boarding schools are hurt because they are so big; ie horace mann sends something like 10 kids a year to harvard which is like roughly 10% of its class, wherease exter would have to send a huge amount of kids like 50 for that percentage)

  • 29k

    Agreed with Brown. I go to Columbia at the moment and I feel like I learned a comparable amount at high school. If you want to talk about value: I had all PHDs in every class… at college I’ve had 90% TAs. What can you do?

    As to Cornell/Louisiana, I think it is you who has the entitlement problem. It is a university’s business to accept whoever they damn well please.

    “Discrimination,” just so you know, is when a more qualified candidate is chosen over a less qualified candidate because of prejudice: an assumption, based on something external to what is on paper, about who a candidate is.

    Southerners are not discriminated against. They are preferred by geographic distribution. You can say that they are not “preferred enough” but that would sound like whining, wouldn’t it?

    The real losers are new yorkers who don’t go to private schools. They get discriminated against by geographic distribution and don’t get PHDs teaching them. Not only that, but it is NORTHERN BLACKS, not southerners, have to vie for the area distribution spots with your proposed problem group of northern black doctors.

    Sorry for talking down to you, but it’s only because I legitimately believe you’re a jackass. Allow me to educate you:

    The real problem, which is plain to anybody who’s not busy stroking a hard on of righteous indignation is that southern schools suck. They just suck. Huge balls.

    At the end of the day, a university can try to take people when possible, but they will not ever ever fill their class up with people who got 1000 on the SAT just to be “fair” to you.

    This is not to blame the poor for being poor. Though the south must be blamed for not teaching evolution in science classes (which is only symptomatic of larger scale censorship of curriculum by religious idiots). Science is the basis of reason, which is all that the SAT is. Kids are going to fuck up on tests if they go through life thinking “Jesus did it” is an acceptable relationship between cause and effect.

    Cause and effect.

    The funding of school districts is based on local property taxes. Richer neighborhoods will tend to have better schools because they are better funded. Additionally, even if you do not have that deterministic problem, rich people will actually MOVE INTO and GENTRIFY a neighborhood the moment they start sending kids to ivies in better proportions. External pressure is forced upon the poor by taxation. Better schools=increased property value=higher property taxes= you have to move.

    So much for the “solution” in improving public schools.

    We need to approach a problem with a sense of cause and effect, and the commitment to accept what is and to change it. Pointing the finger at black lawyers isn’t solving the problem.

    Also, I might add, that you fail to understand that northern private schools are selective. Collegiate selects from dozens of other schools and takes top candidates. So there are levels of filtration above “rich.” The private schools on this list not only hand pick their classes, but also they throw out those who fail to keep up. If your average southern school only accepted people with 99% percentile scores in middle school, then kicked out 10% of its class that couldn’t cut it after assigning upwards of 4 hours of homework per night, you can bet your sweet ass they’d send about the same number of kids to harvard.

  • 29k

    Agreed with Brown. I go to Columbia at the moment and I feel like I learned a comparable amount at high school. If you want to talk about value: I had all PHDs in every class… at college I’ve had 90% TAs. What can you do?

    As to Cornell/Louisiana, I think it is you who has the entitlement problem. It is a university’s business to accept whoever they damn well please.

    “Discrimination,” just so you know, is when a more qualified candidate is chosen over a less qualified candidate because of prejudice: an assumption, based on something external to what is on paper, about who a candidate is.

    Southerners are not discriminated against. They are preferred by geographic distribution. You can say that they are not “preferred enough” but that would sound like whining, wouldn’t it?

    The real losers are new yorkers who don’t go to private schools. They get discriminated against by geographic distribution and don’t get PHDs teaching them. Not only that, but it is NORTHERN BLACKS, not southerners, have to vie for the area distribution spots with your proposed problem group of northern black doctors.

    Sorry for talking down to you, but it’s only because I legitimately believe you’re a jackass. Allow me to educate you:

    The real problem, which is plain to anybody who’s not busy stroking a hard on of righteous indignation is that southern schools suck. They just suck. Huge balls.

    At the end of the day, a university can try to take people when possible, but they will not ever ever fill their class up with people who got 1000 on the SAT just to be “fair” to you.

    This is not to blame the poor for being poor. Though the south must be blamed for not teaching evolution in science classes (which is only symptomatic of larger scale censorship of curriculum by religious idiots). Science is the basis of reason, which is all that the SAT is. Kids are going to fuck up on tests if they go through life thinking “Jesus did it” is an acceptable relationship between cause and effect.

    Cause and effect.

    The funding of school districts is based on local property taxes. Richer neighborhoods will tend to have better schools because they are better funded. Additionally, even if you do not have that deterministic problem, rich people will actually MOVE INTO and GENTRIFY a neighborhood the moment they start sending kids to ivies in better proportions. External pressure is forced upon the poor by taxation. Better schools=increased property value=higher property taxes= you have to move.

    So much for the “solution” in improving public schools.

    We need to approach a problem with a sense of cause and effect, and the commitment to accept what is and to change it. Pointing the finger at black lawyers isn’t solving the problem.

    Also, I might add, that you fail to understand that northern private schools are selective. Collegiate selects from dozens of other schools and takes top candidates. So there are levels of filtration above “rich.” The private schools on this list not only hand pick their classes, but also they throw out those who fail to keep up. If your average southern school only accepted people with 99% percentile scores in middle school, then kicked out 10% of its class that couldn’t cut it after assigning upwards of 4 hours of homework per night, you can bet your sweet ass they’d send about the same number of kids to harvard.

  • 29k

    Agreed with Brown. I go to Columbia at the moment and I feel like I learned a comparable amount at high school. If you want to talk about value: I had all PHDs in every class… at college I’ve had 90% TAs. What can you do?

    As to Cornell/Louisiana, I think it is you who has the entitlement problem. It is a university’s business to accept whoever they damn well please.

    “Discrimination,” just so you know, is when a more qualified candidate is chosen over a less qualified candidate because of prejudice: an assumption, based on something external to what is on paper, about who a candidate is.

    Southerners are not discriminated against. They are preferred by geographic distribution. You can say that they are not “preferred enough” but that would sound like whining, wouldn’t it?

    The real losers are new yorkers who don’t go to private schools. They get discriminated against by geographic distribution and don’t get PHDs teaching them. Not only that, but it is NORTHERN BLACKS, not southerners, have to vie for the area distribution spots with your proposed problem group of northern black doctors.

    Sorry for talking down to you, but it’s only because I legitimately believe you’re a jackass. Allow me to educate you:

    The real problem, which is plain to anybody who’s not busy stroking a hard on of righteous indignation is that southern schools suck. They just suck. Huge balls.

    At the end of the day, a university can try to take people when possible, but they will not ever ever fill their class up with people who got 1000 on the SAT just to be “fair” to you.

    This is not to blame the poor for being poor. Though the south must be blamed for not teaching evolution in science classes (which is only symptomatic of larger scale censorship of curriculum by religious idiots). Science is the basis of reason, which is all that the SAT is. Kids are going to fuck up on tests if they go through life thinking “Jesus did it” is an acceptable relationship between cause and effect.

    Cause and effect.

    The funding of school districts is based on local property taxes. Richer neighborhoods will tend to have better schools because they are better funded. Additionally, even if you do not have that deterministic problem, rich people will actually MOVE INTO and GENTRIFY a neighborhood the moment they start sending kids to ivies in better proportions. External pressure is forced upon the poor by taxation. Better schools=increased property value=higher property taxes= you have to move.

    So much for the “solution” in improving public schools.

    We need to approach a problem with a sense of cause and effect, and the commitment to accept what is and to change it. Pointing the finger at black lawyers isn’t solving the problem.

    Also, I might add, that you fail to understand that northern private schools are selective. Collegiate selects from dozens of other schools and takes top candidates. So there are levels of filtration above “rich.” The private schools on this list not only hand pick their classes, but also they throw out those who fail to keep up. If your average southern school only accepted people with 99% percentile scores in middle school, then kicked out 10% of its class that couldn’t cut it after assigning upwards of 4 hours of homework per night, you can bet your sweet ass they’d send about the same number of kids to harvard.

  • brown @29k

    Yes.

  • brown @29k

    Yes.

  • brown @29k

    Yes.

  • Anonymous

    Is Collegiate really that “middle-class”? There are lots of rich bankers, private equity and hedge fund guys in NYC, and I doubt that they all send their kids to the New England Prep Schools. What am I missing? Then again, I suppose a household with $1,000,000 yearly salary would qualify as middle class by Manhattan standard.

  • Anonymous

    Is Collegiate really that “middle-class”? There are lots of rich bankers, private equity and hedge fund guys in NYC, and I doubt that they all send their kids to the New England Prep Schools. What am I missing? Then again, I suppose a household with $1,000,000 yearly salary would qualify as middle class by Manhattan standard.

  • Anonymous

    Is Collegiate really that “middle-class”? There are lots of rich bankers, private equity and hedge fund guys in NYC, and I doubt that they all send their kids to the New England Prep Schools. What am I missing? Then again, I suppose a household with $1,000,000 yearly salary would qualify as middle class by Manhattan standard.

  • Frog

    I would have to argue that the Journal article is biased in its selection of schools. Stuyvesant, one of the few public schools on this list primarily feeds several of the other ivy’s (Cornell, Penn, Columbia) not present in the study. Few go beyond the region (Pomona, U Chicago, Hopkins). Study also does not include schools such as Stanford, Duke which would balance out regional preferences of top west coast and southern students. Additionally this study fails to take into account the earning power and legacy relationships of the students’ families. Had this also been factored in, would have produced markedly different results, based more upon merit then privilege. After all, not everyone can afford Advantage Testing or has parents who confer legacy status. Glad to see Ramaz made the list. Hopefully Savage can pat himself on the back.

  • Frog

    I would have to argue that the Journal article is biased in its selection of schools. Stuyvesant, one of the few public schools on this list primarily feeds several of the other ivy’s (Cornell, Penn, Columbia) not present in the study. Few go beyond the region (Pomona, U Chicago, Hopkins). Study also does not include schools such as Stanford, Duke which would balance out regional preferences of top west coast and southern students. Additionally this study fails to take into account the earning power and legacy relationships of the students’ families. Had this also been factored in, would have produced markedly different results, based more upon merit then privilege. After all, not everyone can afford Advantage Testing or has parents who confer legacy status. Glad to see Ramaz made the list. Hopefully Savage can pat himself on the back.

  • Frog

    I would have to argue that the Journal article is biased in its selection of schools. Stuyvesant, one of the few public schools on this list primarily feeds several of the other ivy’s (Cornell, Penn, Columbia) not present in the study. Few go beyond the region (Pomona, U Chicago, Hopkins). Study also does not include schools such as Stanford, Duke which would balance out regional preferences of top west coast and southern students. Additionally this study fails to take into account the earning power and legacy relationships of the students’ families. Had this also been factored in, would have produced markedly different results, based more upon merit then privilege. After all, not everyone can afford Advantage Testing or has parents who confer legacy status. Glad to see Ramaz made the list. Hopefully Savage can pat himself on the back.

  • brown

    Does anyone else find the “factoring out” of factors like race or class (or, in this case, legacy status or earning power) to be kind of against the point in studies like this? I mean, that’s why we call them factors — they necessarily affect the outcome. Merit and privilege, for instance, are tied too closely together in college admissions to try to distinguish between the two. Sure, we can try to be race-blind or class-blind or what have you, but then you miss the point: that these things still DO (unfortunately, I might add) factor into our everyday lives, as much as some people might like to turn a blind eye to them.

  • brown

    Does anyone else find the “factoring out” of factors like race or class (or, in this case, legacy status or earning power) to be kind of against the point in studies like this? I mean, that’s why we call them factors — they necessarily affect the outcome. Merit and privilege, for instance, are tied too closely together in college admissions to try to distinguish between the two. Sure, we can try to be race-blind or class-blind or what have you, but then you miss the point: that these things still DO (unfortunately, I might add) factor into our everyday lives, as much as some people might like to turn a blind eye to them.

  • brown

    Does anyone else find the “factoring out” of factors like race or class (or, in this case, legacy status or earning power) to be kind of against the point in studies like this? I mean, that’s why we call them factors — they necessarily affect the outcome. Merit and privilege, for instance, are tied too closely together in college admissions to try to distinguish between the two. Sure, we can try to be race-blind or class-blind or what have you, but then you miss the point: that these things still DO (unfortunately, I might add) factor into our everyday lives, as much as some people might like to turn a blind eye to them.

  • h ’06

    IN YO’ FACE, YALE!

  • h ’06

    IN YO’ FACE, YALE!

  • Cornell / LA

    You have an incoherent-manifesto style to your writing. Don’t lose it. It’s your trademark. Hopefully they taught you that at prep school.
    To address the points that appear related to my comment:
    1. Southerners are not preferred by distribution. A greater percentage of the total college age students from the north attend elite colleges than college age students from the south. But, you may argue, the percentage of students admitted from southern applicants vs. northern applicants are admitted. That’s an arbitrary time to measure percentages. Universities and high schools can manipulate the college applicant pool at will.
    2. Qualification is completely arbitrary. You would have to know what a university is looking for in its student body. Is it a high SAT score, is it diversity, is it maturity and intellectual curiosity, is it ability to succeed after graduation? The SAT is an imperfect gauge for one element in the total, and it is a gauge easily manipulated by income – test prep, college counselors, etc. My argument is simply that if you are letting in students for diversity, geography is a much better indicator than race.
    3. The real problem appears to be that you bought into some sort of new-school education nonsense that you are responsible for your own success. You were given a leg up in life by your parents money which you did not earn. Your high scores are based upon that. You are no more entitled to your spot at Columbia than a student who got his leg up during the application process. However poor southerners have a valid argument that if there are a limited number of legs up being given in the college admissions process it should go to them rather than rich African Americans who may or may not need it.
    4. As for your broad generalizations about the South, your ramblings about fixing the property tax systems, etc. , your education has failed you. Unfortunately, there are no refunds.

  • Cornell / LA

    You have an incoherent-manifesto style to your writing. Don’t lose it. It’s your trademark. Hopefully they taught you that at prep school.
    To address the points that appear related to my comment:
    1. Southerners are not preferred by distribution. A greater percentage of the total college age students from the north attend elite colleges than college age students from the south. But, you may argue, the percentage of students admitted from southern applicants vs. northern applicants are admitted. That’s an arbitrary time to measure percentages. Universities and high schools can manipulate the college applicant pool at will.
    2. Qualification is completely arbitrary. You would have to know what a university is looking for in its student body. Is it a high SAT score, is it diversity, is it maturity and intellectual curiosity, is it ability to succeed after graduation? The SAT is an imperfect gauge for one element in the total, and it is a gauge easily manipulated by income – test prep, college counselors, etc. My argument is simply that if you are letting in students for diversity, geography is a much better indicator than race.
    3. The real problem appears to be that you bought into some sort of new-school education nonsense that you are responsible for your own success. You were given a leg up in life by your parents money which you did not earn. Your high scores are based upon that. You are no more entitled to your spot at Columbia than a student who got his leg up during the application process. However poor southerners have a valid argument that if there are a limited number of legs up being given in the college admissions process it should go to them rather than rich African Americans who may or may not need it.
    4. As for your broad generalizations about the South, your ramblings about fixing the property tax systems, etc. , your education has failed you. Unfortunately, there are no refunds.

  • Cornell / LA

    You have an incoherent-manifesto style to your writing. Don’t lose it. It’s your trademark. Hopefully they taught you that at prep school.
    To address the points that appear related to my comment:
    1. Southerners are not preferred by distribution. A greater percentage of the total college age students from the north attend elite colleges than college age students from the south. But, you may argue, the percentage of students admitted from southern applicants vs. northern applicants are admitted. That’s an arbitrary time to measure percentages. Universities and high schools can manipulate the college applicant pool at will.
    2. Qualification is completely arbitrary. You would have to know what a university is looking for in its student body. Is it a high SAT score, is it diversity, is it maturity and intellectual curiosity, is it ability to succeed after graduation? The SAT is an imperfect gauge for one element in the total, and it is a gauge easily manipulated by income – test prep, college counselors, etc. My argument is simply that if you are letting in students for diversity, geography is a much better indicator than race.
    3. The real problem appears to be that you bought into some sort of new-school education nonsense that you are responsible for your own success. You were given a leg up in life by your parents money which you did not earn. Your high scores are based upon that. You are no more entitled to your spot at Columbia than a student who got his leg up during the application process. However poor southerners have a valid argument that if there are a limited number of legs up being given in the college admissions process it should go to them rather than rich African Americans who may or may not need it.
    4. As for your broad generalizations about the South, your ramblings about fixing the property tax systems, etc. , your education has failed you. Unfortunately, there are no refunds.

  • yale prep

    The WSJ ranking is bullshit. When I was looking at schools out of prep school, I looked at the top Ivies (arguably Harvard, Yale, and Princeton). I also looked at other Ivies (Penn and Brown) and a hand-full of equivalents and “little ivies” like Middlebury, Bowdoin, and Amherst. I’d say my experience was typical for a prep school senior.
    Why would any objective methodology include schools like MIT, Pomona (honestly, what the fuck?), Swarthmore, UChicago, or Johns Hopkins? The only students from my school that went to those colleges were people who couldn’t get into Yale. But apparently Yale is not worthy of the WSJ top eight.

    I’m fairly certain that if the WSJ had used the usual methodology (Ivy League + MIT and Stanford), Collegiate would still come out close to the top, and the usual list of prestigious private schools would follow: Andover, Exeter, St. Paul’s, Groton, Trinity, Rox Lat, Deerfield, Hotchkiss, etc.
    St. Paul’s, for instance, sends most of its students to Harvard (26), Stanford (25), and Yale (21), but only 3 to Pomona (a major hit for the college office, I’m sure). Likewise, last year Andover sent students to Harvard (22), Penn (13), and Yale (12), but only 1 to Swarthmore (for shame!). Too bad Yale, Stanford, and Penn didn’t make the WSJ list this year.

    Also, h ’06, I hate you.

  • yale prep

    The WSJ ranking is bullshit. When I was looking at schools out of prep school, I looked at the top Ivies (arguably Harvard, Yale, and Princeton). I also looked at other Ivies (Penn and Brown) and a hand-full of equivalents and “little ivies” like Middlebury, Bowdoin, and Amherst. I’d say my experience was typical for a prep school senior.
    Why would any objective methodology include schools like MIT, Pomona (honestly, what the fuck?), Swarthmore, UChicago, or Johns Hopkins? The only students from my school that went to those colleges were people who couldn’t get into Yale. But apparently Yale is not worthy of the WSJ top eight.

    I’m fairly certain that if the WSJ had used the usual methodology (Ivy League + MIT and Stanford), Collegiate would still come out close to the top, and the usual list of prestigious private schools would follow: Andover, Exeter, St. Paul’s, Groton, Trinity, Rox Lat, Deerfield, Hotchkiss, etc.
    St. Paul’s, for instance, sends most of its students to Harvard (26), Stanford (25), and Yale (21), but only 3 to Pomona (a major hit for the college office, I’m sure). Likewise, last year Andover sent students to Harvard (22), Penn (13), and Yale (12), but only 1 to Swarthmore (for shame!). Too bad Yale, Stanford, and Penn didn’t make the WSJ list this year.

    Also, h ’06, I hate you.

← Older Comments
Newer Comments →