The Truth About Barnard College
On Sep. 7, the Columbia Spectator published an op/ed so awful it became popular on the internet, garnering 160 comments (at last count) and smashing what we assume to be the previous record of 6 comments.
"The Truth About the Academies," by Idris Leppla, declares itself the "first part of a four-part series." The author, a Barnard student writes:
I know why I chose Columbia: the campus is magnificent, the education is top-tier, and my peers are intelligent. I could look at a stranger, tell him or her that I went to Columbia, and hear the predictable, "Wow, you must be smart."
And it's all downhilll from there. Here's Leppla on her quixotic quest to disenroll her brother against his will from the U.S. Naval Academy:
...the lieutenant reminded me that my brother had signed an oath legally binding him to the Navy. When I reminded the lieutenant that he had signed that oath after he had been yelled at all day and that his hair had just been shaven off during his first day there, he comforted me that John was not at all forced to sign the oath.
They shaved his hair? Why that's just like Abu Ghraib. The Spec has since taken down the article, which is a shame because it was really, really bad -- the kind of wretched awfulness that transcends politics and -- maybe, just maybe -- unites a divided country in a time of momentuous decision.
UPDATE: The Spec says that the article is unavailable for technological, not editorial, reasons. It has been re-posted elsewhere on their site.
After the jump: the article in full
The Truth About the Academies
By Idris Leppla
PUBLISHED SEPTEMBER 7, 2007The following is the first part of a four-part series. The author wishes to express that this article in no way reflects the feelings and thoughts of her brother. It is written from a family member's perspective and is mean to be understood in that way.
I know why I chose Columbia: the campus is magnificent, the education is top-tier, and my peers are intelligent. I could look at a stranger, tell him or her that I went to Columbia, and hear the predictable, "Wow, you must be smart."
When my brother was getting ready to go to the Naval Academy, everyone ooohed and awed about how brave he was. Aunts and uncles would say, "John, you must be one of thousands of kids who wanted to go-you must be so smart!" When he appeared unsure about whether he wanted to choose Navy or University of California, Berkeley, one uncle who works on Wall Street said, "John, businessmen love hiring people from the academies. You will be set for life." With that kind of promised prestige, my brother found it tough to give up a spot at Navy. So in June, my family dropped him off in Annapolis.
Before he left, my family had countless talks about what it might mean to be at an academy. While we knew that someday he would be required to serve, we also were drawn to the top-tier education he was promised to receive. We were told that the Naval Academy was first and foremost an elite college. He would be able to learn history, economics, political science, and even engineering. He would play lacrosse on a nationally ranked team and play the bugle in the marching band. He would have seminars about leadership and selflessness. He would even go to school for free.
When I talked to my brother about why he wanted to go, he admitted that it was because he was drawn to the structure of the place-as a kid who did not want to sit around and drink beer during college, he liked the fact that he would be busy and have a purpose. I soon became comfortable with the idea of the academy, as if it would be a haven for my brother's undergraduate career. And when people would congratulate me on my brother's decision, it made me feel reassured.
Soon that pride turned to anger and fear: after my mom dropped him off at Annapolis, she came home with an acute sense of grief. The only thing she could talk about was how to get him out. In addition to missing his presence at home, she was scared by the extent to which her son had suddenly become the property of the U.S. Navy.
She begged me to call a naval lieutenant Monday morning to start the out-processing forms for my brother. After leaving countless messages for the lieutenant, he finally called me back, at which point he informed me that my brother would have to go through 13 exit-interviews to be dismissed, including an interview with the head of the Navy. When I asked him whether this might intimidate him out of leaving, the lieutenant reminded me that my brother had signed an oath legally binding him to the Navy. When I reminded the lieutenant that he had signed that oath after he had been yelled at all day and that his hair had just been shaven off during his first day there, he comforted me that John was not at all forced to sign the oath.
When I looked at the course catalogue, which boasted seminars about leadership and selflessness, they were in fact seminars about weaponry and leading troops into combat. The reality of sending my brother to the Naval Academy began to set in: this was not a school; this was the military. While they boast a first class education, the main goal of this institution was to get my brother "combat ready." During the first two "induction days," the head of the Navy openly admitted that their goal was to transform these boys into men who would willingly die defending our country. They said to my parents, "We will manage to do in 18 minutes what you could not do in 18 years-we will discipline your boys and have them calling you Sir and Ma'am." When they talked of courage and bravery, they showed a video of a Navy marine rounding off an unlimited supply of ammunition. During my brother's plebe summer (his first summer), he could not talk to us for more than a few minutes once a week for fear that we might unduly influence him.
My brother ended up liking Annapolis and he has decided to stay. While it has been difficult for me to accept that I have a brother in the military, I must allow him to pursue whatever path he is drawn toward, and he has admitted to me that he feels called to being there. However, for anyone else out there considering a career in the academy, let it be known: the U.S. Naval Academy is not an elite college; it is first and foremost a branch of the U.S. military and the prestige comes at a big price-it taxes parents, siblings, and participants if they do not understand what they were signing up for.
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September 13th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
argh. Alright, I’m not one to bash barnard girls unnecessarily. A lot of them are really wonderful and intelligent. But I cannot stand this:
“I know why I chose Columbia: the campus is magnificent, the education is top-tier, and my peers are intelligent. I could look at a stranger, tell him or her that I went to Columbia, and hear the predictable, “Wow, you must be smart.””
You didn’t go to columbia. you went to barnard. don’t tell people you went to columbia. it’s not the same.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
This is excellent stuff! You should submit a link on StudentUP.com to share your content, get it rated and reach a larger audience. Thanks for sharing. Cheers!
September 13th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
And if she’s looking at strangers and telling them that, their “Wow, you must be smart” must be pretty sarcastic, too.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
I found her column strident, pissy, and uninformed. And I felt that I, the reader, was subjected to her emotionally vomiting: no joy. But the coup de grace is that the process illuminates how shallow she is. Bravo!
September 13th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
No Core.
Not Columbia.
September 13th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Not SEAS.
Not smart.
September 13th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Most Columbia students are idiots, Communists, far-left psychos, or all of the above.
September 13th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
I’m glad that regardless the topic, when a Barnard girl does something somewhat objectionable (although I think that that’s kind of debatable in this case… maybe not the best-written article, but definitely not deserving of this degree of anger, mocking and vitriol), Columbia kids can always fall back on the, “She doesn’t go here!” argument.
I’m extremely proud to go to Barnard, and am more than happy to tell people the ‘truth’ about where I go. But the actual truth is that most Barnard girls, and many Columbia students, end up essentially going to both schools. We take classes at both schools, we eat at both schools, we socialize at both schools… And anyways, if Idris wants to call herself a Columbia student, who cares? It seems as though you could at least allow her that much, considering the beating she’s taken this week. But then again, with her brother’s impending deployment (remember that part of the article?), I doubt Idris is spending THAT much time thinking about the Barnard/Columbia relationship.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
your requirements are different, your trustees are different, your administration is different, and most of all your admissions are different. you are not columbia. i don’t care how many extracurriculars you share with columbia, how many products you buy that say “columbia” on it. you are barnard.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Shame on the Spectator editorial board for allowing this rubbish to be published.
Shame on the Columbia students for being so insulting to their Barnard peers.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Columbia students generally like Barnard ladies. I dare say many Columbia men love Barnard ladies (take that in all its nuances). Then someone, like this girl, comes along and ruins it for the rest of them.
Barnard students who say they go to Barnard are generally smart, fun (much more so than most Ivy Leaguers), and outgoing.
Barnard students who say they go to Columbia are shallow, boring, and generally not intelligent. They have to fall back on their “school” for someone to comment on their intelligence.
Be proud of your school. God knows commenters on IvyGate will defend their Alma Maters to the point of ridiculousness.
PS – The article was condescending, ignorant, and painfully high-and-mighty
September 13th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
ahhh, validation. i thought i was the only person who got annoyed by this (i didn’t go to columbia, which explains my ignorance). barnard and columbia are two different schools, with separate admissions. i know this girl who went to barnard and claims columbia all the time (plastered all over her car), but she was rejected by columbia. i have no problem with barnard and i agree with here’s the deal: be proud of your school. don’t lie!
September 13th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Why the hell would you enroll in Barnard and then tell everyone you went to Columbia?!? That makes no sense, unless you’re ashamed of going to Barnard, in which case, why the hell did you apply?
September 13th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
it’s clear that there are those that attend Barnard because they truly enjoy the school and what it offers … but there are also those that only want to be associated with the Columbia name (no matter how weak the association is).
Honestly, going to Barnard and then saying you go to Columbia is pathetic. It’s like you failed miserably at ivy admissions and this was the best alternative to a top-30 school.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
Well, fuck you too. I am neither a leftist nor protester (I can’t stand either by the way). The average Columbian isn’t, either. I thought about choosing Dartmouth over Columbia, but if that meant putting up with douchebags like you than I see I made the right decision.
This particular article is a massive embarrassment and insults the caliber of the student body here and at Barnard with its sheer ignorance about the service academies and the U.S. military. Idris should be ashamed of herself for writing this garbage. And by the way, most Barnard girls aren’t like this. “Here’s the Deal” says it best. This chick is completely off her rocker.
September 14th, 2007 at 12:07 am
i loved barnard and columbia girls equally in my time at columbia. ahh, college.
but, seriously, all of the ‘distinctions’ between barnard and columbia are mainly social, such as what dining hall one eats at and where one lives.
in terms of classes, it wasn’t obvious what was a barnard class and what was a columbia class by the workload, and some classes, taught by barnard faculty in a columbia class or vice versa, i honestly don’t know whose class it was. point was it was good, i learned alot.
September 14th, 2007 at 12:16 am
Sure, this piece sucks… but it’s only an ordinary level of bad; I don’t think it sets any new standards.
September 14th, 2007 at 12:20 am
reading the article, it makes some good points about the service academies, but i think comes off a bit too strong, and that’s why she’s getting all the nasty comments from those who support them.
a friend of mine from home went to the naval academy and decided to leave after a week. and the amount of interviews he had to go through was quite a bit, but it certainly wasn’t impossible to leave.
the real point though, is here we are, at the pinnacle of civilization, and all we have done is found newer and better ways to kill one another. jesus said it best, “he who lives by the sword, will die by the sword.” amen, peter, and fight on the good fight. when the world collapses into chaos, mind you that i will have ample canned food and that my house will be well barricaded against the zombie hoardes.
September 14th, 2007 at 1:08 am
Why does Idris’s facebook say Columbia ‘08?
I did not go to Columbia but I have run into a couple of Barnard girls who do affiliate with Columbia more than Barnard. Although “the actual truth is that most Barnard girls, and many Columbia students, end up essentially going to both schools” I doubt Columbia students are going to claim that they attend Barnard any time soon.
September 14th, 2007 at 1:12 am
I agree with “it’s not so bad.” I was expecting something much worse after all that hype.
September 14th, 2007 at 2:31 am
I looked at applying to the Air Force Academy. I can tell you that even if this person’s sister didn’t know what he was getting into, he certainly did. There is NO WAY to apply to a service academy and not understand what you’re signing up for.
That said, I made the comment above about SEAS, and I can honestly say that some of the smartest and most competent women I know go to Barnard.
September 14th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Yes. I also agree with “here’s the deal.” If Barnard is so great and nothing to be afraid of, then OWN IT. I’ve taken some really wonderful classes at Barnard, but I have to admit that they were easier. That doesn’t mean that the students are dumber, but I definitely did not feel as challenged. Then again, Barnard is better than Columbia in some ways– for example, their advising system is far superior.
Further, I agree with the statement “No core. Not Columbia.” The core makes our school. If I meet an alum 30 years older than me, we share the bond that we have studied the same texts and therefore have a common intellectual background from which to function. Barnard girls aren’t stupid, but they do not share that bond.
September 14th, 2007 at 9:38 am
For a smart Barnard woman, the author – and her family – must have been deaf, dumb and blind to think that the USNA was just like any other ivy – with sailing! The education is not free – it comes with years of service to country, beginning with your undergrad summers. You get a check from the U.S. Navy. And, your mandatory classes include such subtly titled Naval Weapons Systems and Advanced Naval Weapons Systems. Why in the world did they think folks were commending her brother on his bravery? They don’t do that in the ivies (unless you go to Penn).
Sheesh.
September 14th, 2007 at 9:58 am
@just FYI: Agreed. I also looked at Air Force; and, it is crystal clear what you are signing up for. She may not realize it, but her brother IS getting a top-notch education. And that’s one reason the navy won’t treat him like a grunt — he’s a major investment for them.
I have immense respect for Columbia’s core; and, I had thought Barnard women participated in that. Too bad; I think they’re missing out.
September 14th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Now I’m just as uncomfortable with Barnard’s ambiguous relationship with Columbia as the next girl. The lines aren’t as clear cut as I thought they were when I applied. Had I known about all this unnecessary hostility, I may have not applied. Regardless, I do tell most people that I go to Barnard. The fact of the matter is, it’s a small school, and not many people have heard of it. So I end up saying I go to Columbia when speaking to, let’s say my immigrant family or friends, because whether all of you like it or not, we graduate with the same exact degree.
BTW I was not crazy about the article, but the level of immaturity and ignorance evident in critics’ responses only helps, not hurts, the writer.
September 14th, 2007 at 11:47 am
The question of whether or not this article is any good (and to be honest, it really does come across as the kind of pompous, self obsessed crap that only an undergrad at a first tier American University is capable of writing), really misses the point here. What the hell is this girl doing running her brother’s life as if it were some adjunct part of her own? Nowhere does she say that her brother had a problem with going to Annapolis. Only she her and her mom did. And shock! horror!; going to a military college involves preparation for potential combat, who would have thought it? And yet she graciously allows him to continue to go there. If I had family as naive and stupidly pretentious as this, I’d run off and join the Navy as well. Ms. Leppla, please get a grip, a life, and a clue (in any order that you prefer).
September 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am
The question of whether or not this article is any good (and to be honest, it really does come across as the kind of pompous, self obsessed crap that only an undergrad at a first tier American University is capable of writing), really misses the point here. What the hell is this girl doing running her brother’s life as if it were some adjunct part of her own? Nowhere does she say that her brother had a problem with going to Annapolis. Only she her and her mom did. And shock! horror!; going to a military college involves preparation for potential combat, who would have thought it? And yet she graciously allows him to continue to go there. If I had family as naive and stupidly pretentious as this, I’d run off and join the Navy as well. Ms. Leppla, please get a grip, a life, and a clue (in any order that you prefer).
September 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am
Not to even begin to bring GS into this, but from our lofty perch above you both, (with a few glaring exceptions) Barnard students in general are a notch or two below Columbia College gals. GS gals are wrinkly. But wise.
September 14th, 2007 at 11:49 am
The question of whether or not this article is any good (and to be honest, it really does come across as the kind of pompous, self obsessed crap that only an undergrad at a first tier American University is capable of writing), really misses the point here. What the hell is this girl doing running her brother’s life as if it were some adjunct part of her own? Nowhere does she say that her brother had a problem with going to Annapolis. Only she her and her mom did. And shock! horror!; going to a military college involves preparation for potential combat, who would have thought it? And yet she graciously allows him to continue to go there. If I had family as naive and stupidly pretentious as this, I’d run off and join the Navy as well. Ms. Leppla, please get a grip, a life, and a clue (in any order that you prefer).
September 14th, 2007 at 11:50 am
The question of whether or not this article is any good (and to be honest, it really does come across as the kind of pompous, self obsessed crap that only an undergrad at a first tier American University is capable of writing), really misses the point here. What the hell is this girl doing running her brother’s life as if it were some adjunct part of her own? Nowhere does she say that her brother had a problem with going to Annapolis. Only she her and her mom did. And shock! horror!; going to a military college involves preparation for potential combat, who would have thought it? And yet she graciously allows him to continue to go there. If I had family as naive and stupidly pretentious as this, I’d run off and join the Navy as well. Ms. Leppla, please get a grip, a life, and a clue (in any order that you prefer).
September 14th, 2007 at 11:51 am
The question of whether or not this article is any good (and to be honest, it really does come across as the kind of pompous, self obsessed crap that only an undergrad at a first tier American University is capable of writing), really misses the point here. What the hell is this girl doing running her brother’s life as if it were some adjunct part of her own? Nowhere does she say that her brother had a problem with going to Annapolis. Only she her and her mom did. And shock! horror!; going to a military college involves preparation for potential combat, who would have thought it? And yet she graciously allows him to continue to go there. If I had family as naive and stupidly pretentious as this, I’d run off and join the Navy as well. Ms. Leppla, please get a grip, a life, and a clue (in any order that you prefer).
September 14th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Barnard girl:
1)she never said definitively in her article that her brother’s deployment was imminent.
2) clearly she IS thinking about her “place” at columbia, considering she spends her first paragraph pondering how she doth love thee. i assume this article was written in the last 10 days?
3) your argument is to grant her the privilege of saying she went to columbia because she took a beating this week. boo fucking hoo. that logic is atrocious. “let’s give someone accolades they dont deserve because she had a rough week.” which, by the way, is her own damn fault.
i hope there are other Democrats out there like me who find this kind of thinking revolting, regardless of the fact the the writing itself is a piece of shit.
September 14th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
I (proudly) go to Barnard, but each semester I take about half my classes at Barnard and half at Columbia. I don’t pay attention to where the classes are, only to the subject matter and my interest in it. I’ve had Barnard girls in my Columbia classes and Columbia girls and guys in my Barnard classes, and the difficulty of the courses and quality of professors has been virtually indistinguishable. In fact, the best grades I’ve gotten have been in Columbia classes, not Barnard ones.
Although Barnard *is not* the same school as Columbia, both schools offer a fantastic education and students at both schools are able to benefit from the affiliation.
September 14th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
The only ones who benefit from the Columbia-Barnard affiliation are Barnard girls, not the other way around. Some of them (admittedly a minority) simply love taking advantage of the ambiguity in the relationship between Columbia University and Barnard College in order to claim they attend Columbia. Pitiful.
September 14th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
I don’t know…I can think of a bunch of guys who benefit from barnard…. Sorry, that was an obvious joke.
September 14th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
First of all, I like attending Barnard. When people ask where I go to school, I tell them, I attend Barnard. I like the fact that it is different than the Columbia College (CC) and SEAS education. In fact, I didn’t bother applying to either of them because I didn’t like how the Core was described. To the earlier posts, you are correct when you say that there is a different education, because Barnard students do not have to complete the Core, a fact that I, for one, am glad about.
However, Barnard is an affiliate of the university, we graduate from Columbia University, our profs have to be tenured by boards from both Barnard and Columbia. And, I mean, of course we benefit from being a part of the university. Sorry if you feel that having Barnard students in your classes is a problem, we are here. Seriously, do you think that we are detracting from your education if we are sitting next to each other in class?
To be fair, I know Barnard girls who do fit into the “I wish I went to CC, so I picked the next best thing” stereotype, at the same time, I have friends who got accepted, (yes, accepted) to both and chose to go to Barnard. There are people who make inane comments in class (from all the undergrad schools) who probably shouldn’t be here. However, it is unfair to stereotype entire schools based on a few encounters. There are awesome people everywhere, and some not so awesome people everywhere (including Columbia.)
Its not fair for people to assume all Barnard girls are similar to Idris in their inability to recognize one of the military academies as being a part of the military. Despite her inability to use some semblance of common sense, let’s be fair, she is going through a difficult time in having to deal with her brother’s decision to join our country’s armed forces. But Idris, shame on you for calling your brother’s school and trying to un-enroll him. What were you thinking? I’m sure it wasn’t about your brother and the probable negative impact on his career and years there. Also, please fact check your submissions, because while something is running on the op-ed page, it doesn’t mean that you can make things up and grossly exaggerate facts.
September 14th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
“The mission of the United States Naval Academy is to develop midshipmen morally, mentally, and physically, and to imbue them with the highest ideals of duty, honor, and loyalty in order to produce graduates dedicated to a career of naval service and who have the potential for future development in mind and character to assume the highest responsibilties of command, citizenship, and government.”
September 14th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
If you delete “dedicated to a career of naval service and”, this could be the mission of any college. True, most colleges would now downplay the physicality and loyalty; but, those qualities would serve you well in business, government, non-profit work, or the military.
How many Wharton students can you name with at least one of those virtues?
September 14th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Why are Barnard girls even on an Ivy League blog?
September 14th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Notre Dame has the same problem: Notre Dame has St. Mary’s (an all girls school) across the street. It’s Notre Dame’s sister school from when Notre Dame was all-male.
Notre Dame girls dislike St. Mary’s girls b/c they are usually prettier and not as nerdy (therefore a good-time for the Notre Dame guys).
St. Mary’s girls get all the perks of being Notre Dame students (other than the degree). They get football tix, etc.
The problem between the schools came to a head when St. Mary’s made a shirt w/ a little boy w/ an ND on his shirt kissing a little girl w/ a St. Mary’s symbol on her shirt. In the pic he’s shunning a little girl w/ an ND on her shirt. Underneath it read: “You got the right one, baby.” Good thinking, eh.
September 14th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Notre Dame has the same problem: Notre Dame has St. Mary’s (an all girls school) across the street. It’s Notre Dame’s sister school from when Notre Dame was all-male.
Notre Dame girls dislike St. Mary’s girls b/c they are usually prettier and not as nerdy (therefore a good-time for the Notre Dame guys).
St. Mary’s girls get all the perks of being Notre Dame students (other than the degree). They get football tix, etc.
The problem between the schools came to a head when St. Mary’s made a shirt w/ a little boy w/ an ND on his shirt kissing a little girl w/ a St. Mary’s symbol on her shirt. In the pic he’s shunning a little girl w/ an ND on her shirt. Underneath it read: “You got the right one, baby.” Good thinking, eh.
September 14th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Barnard chick:
You are absolutely right when you say that people shouldn’t generalize about students at a certain place because of one person’s botched article. And I certainly know that there are Barnard girls who choose to attend that school over going to Columbia. That isn’t the issue. The problem I have is when the lines are blurred, which in fact they have been, and the administration of both Columbia and Barnard are partly to blame for the ambiguity in the Barnard/Columbia relationship. Barnard College is NOT a part of Columbia University, just the same as Jewish Theological Seminary and Union Theological Seminary are NOT a part of Columbia. They are affiliates. The same as Radcliffe College was an affiliate of Harvard. Radcliffe-Harvard, and Barnard-Columbia, are partnerships, not parts of the same whole. That your degree will also be signed by President Bollinger is a sign of partnership with Columbia. Just some extra facts: 1) the endowments of Barnard and Columbia are entirely separate, 2) when Columbia posts its enrollment figures, these DO NOT include students at Barnard, Teachers College, JTS or UTS. Furthermore, check out any comprehensive list of colleges and universities in the US: Barnard is always listed separately from Columbia.
I should also say I’m glad that you specifically chose Barnard for being Barnard. A lot of people do, and that’s how it should be. But the facts cannot be changed: Barnard College is an independent college for women affiliated with, and not subject to, Columbia. Barnard is Barnard, it is not Columbia, and it is not a part of the Ivy League.
I’m sorry if I come across as an annoying, nitpicking jerk, but these distinctions are important.
September 14th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
i believe i said that it was an affliate
September 14th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
“Idris E. Leppla
Columbia ‘08″ (Courtesy of Facebook)
Betch, you do not go to Columbia. Deal with it.
September 15th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
I *almost* went to the Naval Academy. I got the letter of acceptance and all I had to do was tell them “yes.” I ended up going to Cornell because I didn’t want to spend 5 years in the military.
The USNA application process was hard! I had to secure political appointments, complete a physical fitness challenge, get medical tests, and do an interview. I even did the 1 week visit in high school and saw the entire campus and talked to first year students. It was much, much more complicated than applying to any public or private schools and honestly, there is NO way you can go to an academy without really knowing what you are getting into!
September 16th, 2007 at 10:11 am
To all of you Barnard bashers – have you ever taken a class there? Or talked with a Barnard student? I have taken classes at both Barnard and Columbia, and I can say without a moment’s hesitation I preferred my classes at Barnard. They were more provocative,challenging, and demanding and I can say that this Barnard girl did better than many of the Columbia students in the class. Sure, Columbia has the core, but we have smaller classes and professors who actually (gasp!) care about their students. And Barnard students, I find, are quite a bit loss pompous than columbia students (at least less pompous than the ones who have posted to this blog). They are intelligent, confident women who, like Idris, are not afaid to speak their minds even when it is unpopular.So Columbia kids, stop being so damn elitist – most of the girls who go to Barnard didn’t even apply to Columbia, and maybe if they had you wouldn’t be there claiming intellectual superiority.
As for the personal attacks on the author of this article, they are low and it is none of your business how she and brother relate. This was an OPINION piece by a loving sister scared for her brother, not a piece of investigative journalism. But if something she said offended you, do something constructive, not nasty, and don’t attack her personally.
September 16th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Uptown Girl:
Too often, when responding to someone who sets the record straight about the difference between Barnard and Columbia, a Barnard student will suggest that Barnard is being “unfairly attacked” and resort to a personal example of how she considers the courses at her school superior to those across Broadway. Let’s say, just for argument’s sake, that Barnard IS superior to Columbia. Let’s pretend that no Barnard student even entertained the thought of attending Columbia when choosing colleges, and considers Columbia second-rate. Even if all this is true, even if Barnard is the best undergraduate college in the world, doesn’t make it a part of Columbia University. So your way of challenging us pompous “Barnard bashers” is by resorting to the old “I find Barnard better than Columbia anyway”. To each their own opinion. That will never change the fact that Barnard and Columbia are entirely separate institutions, which makes Idris’ claim that she attends Columbia entirely wrong. You can use all the terms of self-empowerment you want: “strong, beautiful, independent, intelligent, confident” Barnard women. If you’re so wonderful (which many of you are, no doubt) then why do girls like Idris choose to insist that they go to Columbia, instead of trumpeting their Barnardness? Idris Leppla’s article is supposed to be about her personal opinion of the US Naval Academy, motivated by the experience of having her brother there. I don’t doubt her sincerity or her love for her brother, which makes her first paragraph about where she attends school entirely out of place. Us pointing out that she goes to Barnard, and NOT Columbia (and establishing the differences between both), is not a “personal attack”, it is merely telling the truth.
September 17th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
…when someone does write an article that makes him/her sound stupid (even if it is “OPINION”), Columbia would rather not have its name associated with said article.
Oh, and my last class at Barnard? Me and the one boy in the class were the only ones that spoke on a regular basis. Not saying that represents the whole school, but if we want to speak anecdotally…
September 17th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
I can’t wait for the next three installments!
September 17th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
The outrage is mostly over the fact that she says “The US Naval Academy is a military academy” as if this were an absolutely mind-blowing fact, hidden from all the world by the deceitful sadists that populate today’s military. She and her mother would have to be absolute cretins if they missed that going to the Naval Academy requires a service commitment. Nothing’s free, sweetheart, especially a top-notch education at one of the most rigorous schools in the US. The choices she leaves us are either a) she’s a complete pompous idiot, or b) she’s lying. The military doesn’t deceive anyone about what service entails. Too much bad PR, which, courtesy of Madame Idris and her slightly harder-working superiors in the regular media, they get no matter what they do. How about a little RESEARCH next time, O Aspiring Journalist? And how about reserving judgment on the kill-bot factory until you’ve educated yourself?
For you students–that’s why this article is getting so much attention on the internet. Most of the netizens could care less whether she goes to Columbia or Barnard and her arrogant actions in trying to get her brother out of the school he chose are secondary. She’s slandering an old and respected institution that turns out some of the strongest and bravest men of your generation. She’s lying about how our military operates. And as a veteran, with a Marine father, brother, and sister, Navy and Air Force grandfathers, and a military lineage that goes back to the war of 1812 (that I know of) I can’t believe that anyone would publish lies like that. And yeah, I take it as a personal insult.
At least try to ground your anti-military bigotry in reality, Idris; it makes it more of a challenge to refute. And hey, editors, have you ever in your lives heard of FACT CHECKING?
September 17th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
In support of the post by Sentry, I too find the article to be a complete fabrication at best and outright emotional lies at least. The fact that this very poor writer was even allowed to take up space in a Columbia Journal is alarming to me. I too don’t care whether she is a Barnard or Columbia student, that isn’t the point. The point is that she is an arrogant nincompoop and the editors of your paper chose to publish her ignorant rant. Educate yourselves. Don’t write about things that you don’t know. Don’t tell people that the “head of the navy” told your parents so in so when he wasn’t even in attendance. Having said that, I can’t wait for the next installment of Ms.Idris scoop on the Naval Academy. Has her brother washed out yet due to family pressure? Is he sticking it out to get away from the mother and sister? I can’t wait to find out!
September 17th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
If Idris were my sister, I would spend every moment possible in Annapolis. I would also have to be one tough mofo after 18 years of her shit.
Her brother will make it through. But I could see her taking some time off from “Columbia”.
September 18th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
A couple minor points:
1) Idris’ facebook profile says “Columbia” because there is no Barnard option. When you sign up (or at least when I did in 2004 or so) you click the Columbia/Barnard option, input your Barnard email, and it displays as Columbia.
2) If what she really wanted was the Columbia name, she should have gone to Columbia College. Barnard and Columbia are affiliated, share classes, and sports, and facilities, but are different schools. If she wanted a non-core based curriculum, or an advisor, or a school with a history of helping women to achieve in the professional world, she should have chosen Barnard. While my degree says “Universitae Columbia” (or something like that) across the top, my resume says “Barnard College.” HOWEVER, I often use Columbia to put Barnard into context. I think that having attended classes there, played sports for them, and even lived in a Columbia dorm, that I am legitimately entitled to explain Barnard in relationship to Columbia. Without Columbia there would be no Barnard.
3) The girl is clearly a lefty idiot. It doesn’t seem like her brother minds the academy, so why should she? As much as I love Barnard and the calliber of women who attend, the academies are much tougher to get into, with a more rigorous screening process. When was the last time a Barnard girl needed a recommendation from a congressperson?
September 18th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
“If what she really wanted was the Columbia name, she should have gone to Columbia College”
Or, she could have been rejected from Columbia and all the other ivy’s. Seeing how barnard’s acceptance rate is nearly 3 times as high as columbia’s, this isn’t to hard to imagine. She wanted the prestige.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Lex, i got some popcorn over here, you got the Guiness?
September 18th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Yeah. Just for strength, though. Never can be too strong.
September 18th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
Oh she’s a loony lefty from SF alright. Even better: this from http://www.emanuelsf.org/downloads/chronicle/chron_summer05.pdf
“…Idris Leppla, a member of our congregation and a student at Barnard/Jewish Theological Seminary…”.
So now it’s Barnard/JTS? Where DOES she go to school? Does the answer change with the audience?
Her other Spectator pieces on cell phone addiction and the “beauty of yogurt” are almost poetic in showing the fruits of a Barnard education. Craptastic!
September 18th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Wow. @BC, get over yourself. Need we bring up this pompous “our acceptance rate only let in one millionth of the world population, so forget about it” thing again!
I am a student at Barnard. I am a student at Columbia. Wanna fight it? Be me guest. Kick me out of Lerner for all I care. The Nexus is going to be the shit anyways ;)
BTW: If Columbia students think they are better than Barnard students simply because of their acceptance rate, they’ve got a realllll real world coming to smack them in the face.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Lara:
Columbia better than Barnard! Hell no! Why would we ever think that! Why, the only reason I point out they’re separate is because Columbia doesn’t even come close to Barnard, that independent bastion of feminist enlightenment, that haven for strong, beautiful, intelligent, courageous, confident, no-nonsense, civic-minded, exemplary women leaders of the future. I am a man, and a Columbia graduate. But I must admit that I only went to Columbia for the proximity with Barnard. Oh to have Barnard College affiliated with my alma mater. What prestige! What honor!
Get over yourself and the fact that you hang out at Lerner. I for one, am thrilled to learn of “The Nexus”. It means you’ll have your own place to hang out at and soak yourself in Barnard pride.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Acceptance rate pompous? Are you some asshat communist? Students applying to schools comprise one side of a market. They know approximate acceptance rates, costs, and what they are willing to pay (including going into debt). Tens of thousands of such students apply to Columbia despite the long odds: they believe a Columbia education would be worth the cost. So the acceptance rate is one metric of desirability: It tells you how much excess demand there is for that school. If enough people wanted to go to Barnard (forcing them to be selective), or if Barnard were able to attract intelligent applicants, you’d understand that. I vote for Columbia to cut the cord with Barnard. Let them float down the Hudson with the other sewage.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:10 am
Ok boys, you’ve got me all figured out. First, you’ve got me pinned down as an “asshat communist” for calling you all pompous for bringing up the CU acceptance rate. What the heck is that?
Just as you said. It is ONE metric of desirability. Just one. That was my point. There’s no reason to label Columbia as an infinitely better school just because of the acceptance rate. Thank you for telling me I’m a communist. I despise them, and actually run an online communist genocide curriculum resource.
Oh… and IF Barnard were able to attract intelligent applicants? Excuse me? This is the sort of thing I hate about Ivy Leaguers (sadly, maybe this is just a “Columbia” thing). You are an absolutely terrible representation of your institution.
Since you have decided to not reveal your name, you sir, are a despicable person.
I vote for Columbia to cut the cord with Barnard. This way we won’t have to deal with you pompous asses at ALL.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Barnard and JTS have separate admissions, you must independently be accepted to both schools for elligibility, unlike Columbia/JTS’ joint program, where you apply through JTS, and GS signs off on it.
September 20th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
“…they showed a video of a Navy marine rounding off an unlimited supply of ammunition.”
Does anyone know what Idris is referring to here?
What does “rounding off” mean?
September 20th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
The fact that Barnard is lumped into the Columbia Facebook network annoys me beyond description.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
A non-elite, non-involved weighs in: I can’t claim a prestigious vantage point because I didn’t attend an Ivy (I went to Stanford). I didn’t go to Columbia or Barnard. I also currently don’t know anyone enrolled at either school. But. . .for the love of god, people, Barnard is not Columbia. If you DID not get an acceptance packet from Columbia and DID not sign the papers and matriculate, you DO not go to Columbia. And no amount of “But I take classes with the students and I sometimes talk to them and often touch their vestments as they walk by” changes that. Anyone of collegiate age who has the slightest issue with the simple phrase “Barnard is not Columbia” is with 99.9999999% statistical likelihood a Barnard student. Conflict of interest, anyone? Barnard students that take issue with the phrase “Barnard is not Columbia” are the students that make Barnard really, really lame. If it weren’t for your existence, Barnard might actually be the ultra-cool, offbeat, devil-may-care place you claim it to be. Columbia students (whether through intelligence, pluck, bribery, or subterfuge, it doesn’t matter) have earned the right to say they attend Columbia; Barnardians have not. Besides, why would you want to associate yourself with those g*ddamn intelligent a**holes. And yes, they REALLY need to do something about the Facebook thing.
September 20th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
bewhatyouare:
Thank You! I couldn’t have explained it better.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
I’m new to this debate. I am currently applying to Barnard, and I like the idea of the school having it’s own identity. I think the relationship between Columbia and Barnard is a little confusing because of the Columbia University: Barnard College distinction, and the fact that the degree is awarded by Columbia U. Aside from that, is this very different from UPenn/Wharton, Syracuse/Newhouse, etc? Finally, I think a lot of this stems from not wanting to be labeled a lesbian by attending an all girls school.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
I have to do early app between both. My current grades at school (i live in france) would have allowed me, according to my college counselor, to attend stanford (dream schools) but a certain SAT, test i never tried and got used to before, came in the way at the last moment. I am now in a dilemma between barnard and tufts. Which one shoul i choose? I like both ones equally for different reasons but the only reason that would have me go towards barnard was the columbia degree. I must admit it does allow you more opportunities than if you say you come from tufts, that, despite its excellency, is not as reputated. But your comments are making me change my mind. Which one is the best?
September 27th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Definitely go to Tufts. Barnard might have the seal of Columbia printed on its degrees, but you would still graduate from Barnard College, not Columbia University, as they are separate institutions. By the way, Wharton and Penn are not separate schools. Wharton is a school within Penn, much like Columbia College or Columbia Law School is within Columbia, and unlike Barnard, which is merely an affiliate.
Go to Tufts. All the best
September 28th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Alright, I’ll take your advice. It’s just that some girls from my school that just got accepted to barnard are making a whole big deal out of it, bascially saying to me “omg this is so cool i got accepted to barnard, i’ll have a columbia degree i’m so happy. Definetly apply to barnard you’ll see, when you’re future employers will see you got a columbia degree, they will be so much more impressed than a tufts of wellesley one”
And since i’m a gullible little Parisian who doesn’t know shit about the opportunities you can get when applying for a job in NY, i’m pretty much inspired by what they say…
September 28th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Alright, I’ll take your advice. It’s just that some girls from my school that just got accepted to barnard are making a whole big deal out of it, bascially saying to me “omg this is so cool i got accepted to barnard, i’ll have a columbia degree i’m so happy. Definetly apply to barnard you’ll see, when you’re future employers will see you got a columbia degree, they will be so much more impressed than a tufts of wellesley one”
And since i’m a gullible little Parisian who doesn’t know shit about the opportunities you can get when applying for a job in NY, i’m pretty much inspired by what they say…
September 29th, 2007 at 10:52 am
Definitely choose Barnard. It is the most competitive women’s school in America and attracts extremely bright, high-powered women. This whole discussion of Barnard v. Columbia is inane, narcissistic fluff. Barnard is an excellent, small liberal-arts college in the most exciting city in America. It benefits greatly from its affiliation from Columbia, which is a large, wonderful university. Barnard students have access to activities and classes at Columbia, which are terrific. Barnard women get the best of both worlds: a small, protected, peaceful environment with excellent small classes and advising and wonderful students, and, right outside the door, Columbia and NYC.
September 29th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
I see that your original dream school was Stanford. My advice is to still apply there. Since you are a foreign student, they will not place as much emphasis on your SAT as they do on American students, because the SAT is not required in many countries and therefore you have had less experience with it. I was in the same position as you 4 years ago (foreign student with low SAT score) and I just focused on making the rest of my application as strong as possible. I ended up at Barnard, which has been an amazing experience, but if you want to try for Stanford, good luck!
October 1st, 2007 at 11:23 am
thanks a lot, but my college counselor who has had experience with ppl like me told me that it really wasn’t worth trying. So ill prolly just try that out at stanford. Anyway, i thought the most competetive woman’s college was wellesley. Im thinking on applying there too (ugh). But anyway, so both of you think that barnard is the best choiche. last question: which one is the most reputated between the 3?
October 1st, 2007 at 11:23 am
thanks a lot, but my college counselor who has had experience with ppl like me told me that it really wasn’t worth trying. So ill prolly just try that out at stanford. Anyway, i thought the most competetive woman’s college was wellesley. Im thinking on applying there too (ugh). But anyway, so both of you think that barnard is the best choiche. last question: which one is the most reputated between the 3?
October 1st, 2007 at 3:40 pm
After reading all of these blogs I’m shocked at the level of immaturity of both Barnard and Columbia students. Why even bother fighting? Is it really worth it? I was accepted to both Barnard and Columbia, and I decided that Barnard was the school for me. College should be about the education, not bragging rights! I’m worried for all of you feel so strongly about these issues, maybe you should go and do something worthwhile with your time!
There’s room on Broadway for the both of us, relax.
October 5th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Yeah what’s the most reputated, Wellesley or Barnard?
October 7th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
barnard. but don’t come here just because it’s ranked higher, you have to like it to succeed.
October 8th, 2007 at 9:54 am
LOL its a joke right? Barnard better than Wellesley?
okay first of all dear bc woman wellesley is ranked a lot higher than barnard but its not only this. Not only is barnard the shadow of columbia and lets be sincere you know it, but its academic excellence also dependds on columbia’s. Barnard is nothing on its own. Wellesley is. And trust me you would have WAYY more opportunities to go into a graduate school like stanford coming from wellesley (which they love) than laim , high-school-like and dependant under-columbia barnard.
Pick wellesley, french girl!
October 9th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Hahaha smugly asserts that Wellesley is obviously much better than Barnard. Wellesley is a great school, true. But she leaves out a few variables. First, Barnard is considerably more selective than Wellesley (and, if you look at the stats, the women at Barnard are at least as accomplished as the Wellesley women). Second, the quality of life at Barnard is much higher. Wellesley has a beautiful campus, but it’s tucked away in a suburb, 30 minutes from Boston. Barnard is in NYC and, yes, it has wonderful access to Columbia. What’s wrong with that? It’s one part of what makes Barnard such a lively, exciting school. French girl, apply to Barnard as your first choice (but don’t forget Wellesley as your safety school).
October 17th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
“Barnard is considerably more selective than Wellesley” = this does not prove anything, it is because the fact that it is in NYC attracts more people, thats IT.
“but it’s tucked away in a suburb, 30 minutes from Boston” honey, do you know anything about it? I go to wellesley and i can tell you we see guys and other people all the time. Don’t get this narrow NYC b*tch kind of mentality it really piss people off. 30 min away from boston, meaning you have the amazingly beautiful campus UNLIKE barnard’s high-school type, and you have a really easy access to the city
“but don’t forget Wellesley as your safety school”: With its ivy league type of education, Wellesley (unlike barnard) can NEVER be a safety, even for the best students.
Do ED Wellesley. Or if you want to be in NY, at least attend a college with a prestige coming from its OWN education: Columbia, or NYU
October 17th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
“Barnard is considerably more selective than Wellesley” = this does not prove anything, it is because the fact that it is in NYC attracts more people, thats IT.
“but it’s tucked away in a suburb, 30 minutes from Boston” honey, do you know anything about it? I go to wellesley and i can tell you we see guys and other people all the time. Don’t get this narrow NYC b*tch kind of mentality it really piss people off. 30 min away from boston, meaning you have the amazingly beautiful campus UNLIKE barnard’s high-school type, and you have a really easy access to the city
“but don’t forget Wellesley as your safety school”: With its ivy league type of education, Wellesley (unlike barnard) can NEVER be a safety, even for the best students.
Do ED Wellesley. Or if you want to be in NY, at least attend a college with a prestige coming from its OWN education: Columbia, or NYU
October 17th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
“Barnard is considerably more selective than Wellesley” = this does not prove anything, it is because the fact that it is in NYC attracts more people, thats IT.
“but it’s tucked away in a suburb, 30 minutes from Boston” honey, do you know anything about it? I go to wellesley and i can tell you we see guys and other people all the time. Don’t get this narrow NYC b*tch kind of mentality it really piss people off. 30 min away from boston, meaning you have the amazingly beautiful campus UNLIKE barnard’s high-school type, and you have a really easy access to the city
“but don’t forget Wellesley as your safety school”: With its ivy league type of education, Wellesley (unlike barnard) can NEVER be a safety, even for the best students.
Do ED Wellesley. Or if you want to be in NY, at least attend a college with a prestige coming from its OWN education: Columbia, or NYU
October 17th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
“Barnard is considerably more selective than Wellesley” = this does not prove anything, it is because the fact that it is in NYC attracts more people, thats IT.
“but it’s tucked away in a suburb, 30 minutes from Boston” honey, do you know anything about it? I go to wellesley and i can tell you we see guys and other people all the time. Don’t get this narrow NYC b*tch kind of mentality it really piss people off. 30 min away from boston, meaning you have the amazingly beautiful campus UNLIKE barnard’s high-school type, and you have a really easy access to the city
“but don’t forget Wellesley as your safety school”: With its ivy league type of education, Wellesley (unlike barnard) can NEVER be a safety, even for the best students.
Do ED Wellesley. Or if you want to be in NY, at least attend a college with a prestige coming from its OWN education: Columbia, or NYU
October 17th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
“Barnard is considerably more selective than Wellesley” = this does not prove anything, it is because the fact that it is in NYC attracts more people, thats IT.
“but it’s tucked away in a suburb, 30 minutes from Boston” honey, do you know anything about it? I go to wellesley and i can tell you we see guys and other people all the time. Don’t get this narrow NYC b*tch kind of mentality it really piss people off. 30 min away from boston, meaning you have the amazingly beautiful campus UNLIKE barnard’s high-school type, and you have a really easy access to the city
“but don’t forget Wellesley as your safety school”: With its ivy league type of education, Wellesley (unlike barnard) can NEVER be a safety, even for the best students.
Do ED Wellesley. Or if you want to be in NY, at least attend a college with a prestige coming from its OWN education: Columbia, or NYU
October 17th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Methinks Wellesley girl protests too much. One email repeated five times? I concede, though, that the safety school comment was gratuitous. Wellesley is a great school and, as Wellesley girls says, it is not a safety school. Still, if French girl has not gotten sick of this inane exchange, she should choose Barnard. It’s as good as Wellesley and a lot more fun.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Now here is one good Barnard girl who learn her lesson: be democratic
Bye 6th Sister :)
November 11th, 2007 at 12:37 am
you have your own library. go to it. stop taking up all the rooms at butler. you shouldn’t be allowed in butler. you shouldn’t be allowed in lerner. you shouldn’t be allowed in john jay. you shouldn’t be allowed in our classes. cc >>> barnard. seas sucks too.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
To cc girl: Have you ever wondered why you feel so bitter and threatened? Have you ever considered getting a life?
November 18th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Wellesley probably provides a great education and has tons of terrific students, but it seems like one of the main draws was that students can take classes at Harvard and MIT. What happened to single-sex education? And also, why not just GO to Harvard and MIT?
December 3rd, 2007 at 6:38 am
Seriously guys, all this shit is pathetic!
Barnard is not Columbia, no matter how much you think. I worked in admissions… It’s not!
Stop bragging about your schools! If you are trully confident in ur school, you don’t need to defend it all that vehemently. If other people don’t get it, then don’t care. They’re ignorant!
Stop debating all girls schools! Who gives a shit?! Both are awesome, just with different stats.
And finally to the cc girl. IDK why you say SEAS sucks. I feel sorry for you, because I’m gonna graduate and everyone’s gonna wanna hire me, because I went to a top ranked ivy engineering school. I took 21 credits in classes 50 times harder than yours, and I actually learned shit, like building a goddamn fucking catalytic converter. Do you even know what that is?… Look it up!
December 15th, 2007 at 6:04 am
Just to let you know that Idris’ facebook network as Columbia is absolutely normal, because a barnard edu adress makes you part of the Columbia network – go figure.
January 1st, 2008 at 5:04 pm
How many elite northeast college graduates actually serve their country?? Not many last time I checked. Quit your whining little girl…it’s a hard world out there…
January 9th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I picked Wellesley, and got admitted. Didn’t know I would create such a conflict. I didn’t choose Wellesley because it was ranked higher in Us news & world shit, or because you have a minimal chance of taking classes at Harvard, but simply because i like what they offered better, also, the columbia vs barnard battles turned me out. Voila
January 9th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
@ SEAS girl:
“Stop bragging about your schools! If you are trully confident in ur school, you don’t need to defend it all that vehemently. If other people don’t get it, then don’t care. They’re ignorant!”
Oh, wait.
“And finally to the cc girl. IDK why you say SEAS sucks. I feel sorry for you, because I’m gonna graduate and everyone’s gonna wanna hire me, because I went to a top ranked ivy engineering school. I took 21 credits in classes 50 times harder than yours, and I actually learned shit, like building a goddamn fucking catalytic converter. Do you even know what that is?… Look it up!”
Oh, hypocrisy.
P.S. No not Idris “What, the Naval Academy is really part of the miltary?” but Idriss H’11.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Congrats French girl and welcome to Wellesley!
Way to make the decision on what made you happy about what the school had to offer and not all this needless arguing.
It’s a great school. And coming from someone who NEVER thought they’d go to an all women’s college(and Wellesley being the only one I applied to) you will love it. It may take some time to get used to, but it is so great. No matter where you end up my advice is just make the best out of it and take advantage of every opportunity.
January 13th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
well, for those people who say that Barnard is not part of Columbia, and that it is just an affiliate, facebook does not have a separate Barnard network. Barnard girls have to be a part of the Columbia network. thus, barnard IS part of Columbia while being an affiliate.
January 13th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Yeah, I mean, the authority on collegiate affiliations is definitely Facebook, not admission standards.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Thanks W girl, I’m actually in this situation right now: did i make the right decision in choosing a all-women’s college? but everyone tells me how great it s. I have a welleley meeting in paris Saturday, ill ask som alumns ho will probably end up telling me the same!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Barnard IS a part of Columbia. if you look at Barnard’s official website, it says, “Barnard is located just across Broadway from Columbia’s main campus and is one of four undergraduate schools within the Columbia University system (the others are Columbia College, the Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science, and the School of General Studies).” SO, it IS an undergrad college of Columbia!
So, if CC, GS, and SEAS students say the go to Columbia and their respected undergrad institution, why can’t Barnard girls say that they go to Columbia?
January 26th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Barnard IS a part of Columbia. if you look at Barnard’s official website, it says, “Barnard is located just across Broadway from Columbia’s main campus and is one of four undergraduate schools within the Columbia University system (the others are Columbia College, the Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science, and the School of General Studies).” SO, it IS an undergrad college of Columbia!
So, if CC, GS, and SEAS students say the go to Columbia and their respected undergrad institution, why can’t Barnard girls say that they go to Columbia?
January 26th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Barnard IS a part of Columbia. if you look at Barnard’s official website, it says, “Barnard is located just across Broadway from Columbia’s main campus and is one of four undergraduate schools within the Columbia University system (the others are Columbia College, the Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science, and the School of General Studies).” SO, it IS an undergrad college of Columbia!
So, if CC, GS, and SEAS students say the go to Columbia and their respected undergrad institution, why can’t Barnard girls say that they go to Columbia?
January 26th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Barnard IS a part of Columbia. if you look at Barnard’s official website, it says, “Barnard is located just across Broadway from Columbia’s main campus and is one of four undergraduate schools within the Columbia University system (the others are Columbia College, the Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science, and the School of General Studies).” SO, it IS an undergrad college of Columbia!
So, if CC, GS, and SEAS students say the go to Columbia and their respected undergrad institution, why can’t Barnard girls say that they go to Columbia?
April 6th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
As a prospective barnard student, I am a little appalled and put off by the comments from both sides of this discussion. I didn’t apply to CC (although I was accepted to an Ivy, Brown, for those of you who place so much emphasis on those distinctions, and am not attending for reasons irrelevant to this discussion), and am considering Barnard based on its own merits, which happen to include a relationship with Columbia that, from my perspective, is invaluable to the Barnard girls and that they should be very grateful for. HOWEVER, I think that the way that the Columbia students have responded to this article is immature, pompous, and completely ridiculous. In applying to Barnard, I had hoped/thought that the Columbia students might be gracious and mature about sharing their facilities and classes with the Barnard women. Hopefully, what I am seeing here is just the extreme end of things. Personally, I think that CCers unnecessary elitist attitude might be just as annoying as Barnard girls saying they go to Columbia. Also, I think the Columbia/Barnard issue on facebook should be changed, although that is obviously not the fault of students at either school, and that Barnard shouldn’t be so quick in saying that both schools benefit from the affiliation. To me, at least, Barnard benefits in the most obvious ways, but, as I said before, Columbia students ought to be more mature about it. Finally, going to an Ivy League school doesn’t mean much these days. Thousands of students just as qualified as you applied to the same school, and the fact that you got accepted and they didn’t can almost be attributed to luck at this point (obviously, there are distinctions, but you can’t rightfully think that you’re very superior to students at other very good schools, such as Barnard or Tufts).
April 6th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
I am absolutely disgusted. But, then again, I am also not surprised because the behavior present on this discussion board is so comically, however genuinely, representative of Western Civilization (past, present, and inevitably, to come). Not only is this entire argument purely elitist AND sophomoric, it also blithely contradicts the very essence of what college is about: the ability to accept, appreciate, and collaborate with students in the hope of generating as much knowledge and helpful amity (and by this, I am referring to the connections one is supposed to make in a university setting…the DIVERSE connections) as possible. I would like to direct my feelings of disappointment to both the Columbia and Barnard students in the interest of not rendering myself a hypocrite. However, I feel psychologically obliged to mention that I feel one of the institutions above, fighting so feverishly to preserve their oh, so precarious identity, is much more at fault than the other. Funny, but somehow I am not surprised by this perhaps, ironic twist. My last suggestion…(in the interest of being pretentiously articulate like the highly intellectual students FROM BOTH INSTITUTIONS who are arguing about this tedious matter) is simply get a life! Read a book…sing a song…find a hobby to satisfy and quell your fear of disappearing. Trust me, the fact that a Barnard student claimed to attend Columbia, will in no way diminish your individual entity. For the love of God, stop being so damn afraid to simply accept the world…don’t you realize how much time is being wasted? Here’s a suggestion: take every opportunity that is thrown at you and learn from each person, each experience, and each affiliation. I can assure you, from experience, that the rewards will naturally manifest themselves in the name of true progress. You will become worldlier, more successful, and perhaps, even a better person than you are today.
April 6th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
To all those Columbians out there:
I went to the regional meeting for Barnard admits from LA today and the dean of admissions informed everyone that this was the first year that there were more students from Columbia taking courses at Barnard than Barnard students taking courses at Columbia. Ha! So, the validation you seek may be slowly disintegrating….And kudos to you Student1! Everyone, “Get a life”!!!!!!
April 6th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
i was accepted to both columbia and barnard but this hostility is just putting me off, as well as other potential students. just get over yourselves columbia students. does it really matter?!
April 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Oh for…
I am a proud Barnard woman who graduated at the top of my class with highest honors and membership in several honor societies. I also took more than 1/3 of my classes at Columbia. I found the classes at both colleges to be equally challenging. I have friends who were Dance and Music majors who were technically Columbia students, but took almost all their major classes at Barnard. The colleges are different and offer different environments to their students, but any Barnard or Columbia student with his or her head on straight will tell you that it’s one big community with SEAS included too. Why be petty? One-upsmanship is just insecurity manifested as pettiness.
April 14th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
I was accepted at both Columbia College and UPenn, but waitlisted at Barnard, so there you have it. Frankly, though, I’m a bit disgusted by all of these inferiority complexes / overgrown egos. I think they are all excellent schools, and I’m not sure why everyone insists on snubbing Barnard. One of my friends is a current student, and she is definitely an intelligent, wonderful girl – not a slut or a hyper-feminist.
April 14th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
People are still posting here?
April 16th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Well, as a Barnard woman, being lumped into the Columbia facebook network offends me too. I think I speak for a lot of us when I say that we would, indeed, prefer to have our facebooks say “Barnard College” because we -are- proud.
April 22nd, 2008 at 5:59 pm
all that i have to say is, WHAT LOSERS. i cannot believe it. its laughable that you guys care so much about this bogus issue. its so riddled with insecurity from both sides. i went to barnard and then i went to columbia law. Guess what, there were incredibly bright girls at barnard and incredibly bright girls at columbia. There were also idiots at both schools. Trust me, there are columbia grads who end up at bs grad schools and there are barnard girls who go to harvard law. Why the f would barnard girls be dumb sluts who wish they went to columbia? if they are then you guys at cc shouldn’t give an f about them. If they happen to be just as intelligent or moreso than you, why the intellectual insecurity? get over it. i hope the majority of you are 18 year old freshman, otherwise its pathetic! such a moot point. worry about your own grades and not the status of barnard college or its students.
April 22nd, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Additionally, why the obsession with proving barnard girls are inferior? columbia students don’t seem to worry about validating their intelligence by denigrating other schools. i had a 3.95 in college and usually had the best grade in all of my columbia courses yet for some reason whenever a fellow “columbia” student in one of my classes found out i was a barnard student, they would feign shock. The idea was that i was apparently too smart to be a barnard student. WTF? my two best friends from barnard finished high school in two years and college in two years as well. One went on to Harvard and one to Stanford for law school. Are you seriously telling me that we are or were intellectually inferior due to our time at barnard. how petty and simplistic.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
the reason why her facebook says Columbia ‘08 is because Barnard doesnt have its own network. all Barnard students are to join the Columbia networkd because it makes sending campus notifications easier because all events at Columbia/Barnard are open to both sets of students. Barnard students are just as intelligent as Columbia students and probably more fun because most of them arent obsessed with the school name and they arent so stuck up to battle people online to preserve that. a lot of you people need to get over yourselves. please.
April 29th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
i say barnard when i’m at columbia. when i’m at home where nobody has heard of barnard (and only some people have heard of columbia) i say columbia, and since my degree someday will undoubtedly say columbia university on it, i feel justified in this choice. then people usually ask me if its as good as NYU. uggggggh
this article was awful but not nearly as bad as the barnard bulletin, which is one of the only things about barnard that makes me want to drop out and slit my wrists
April 16th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
This is sad. It’s a shame that the ‘brightest minds’ in America come to college with such deeply rooted psycological issues… Since when was intellect directly related to the rank of your college? Grow up. Life is more intricate than that.