NYU Law Kid Wants to Help You Help Him
Beware MBAs bearing gifts.
Nate Pierce, a JD/MBA student at NYU, contacted a few top schools back in January to tell them about his cool new idea: a service that would compile the resumes of other JD/MBAs and put them in touch with each other and potential employers. Apparently many schools don't keep up-to-date lists of JD/MBAs -- the god-kings of grad school society -- and therefore there's no central database of these uber-qualified job candidates. It's simple, really: You give him your resume, he makes sure an employer sees it. For free.
At this point, anyone with even the slightest shade of street wisdom would be wondering, what's in it for him? Nate's waaay ahead of ya. He reassured students in his initial pitch:
"Please note that I am not doing this for my own agenda -- I have already secured employment following graduation. I am doing this project because I think it will benefit many JD/MBAs, and because I myself would like to be a part of a national network of JD/MBAs."
Shame on you for thinking he would try and make money off his fellow students!
Here's the problem: he sorta is. Just last week, a dean at NYU's career services office sent out a mass e-mail to administrators at Yale, Harvard, Michigan, Stanford, and other places where Pierce had been hawking his wares:
From: Irene Dorzback
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 4:05 PM
To: [Redacted]
Subject: Re: TIME SENSITIVE JD/MBA Resume BookColleagues:
I just learned from a law firm that our student, Nate Pierce, has sent a promotional letter to the law firms offering the "top schools" JD/MBA resume book to them for a $500 fee. There are 52 resumes in the book (which I have not seen). No where in his communication to you did he indicate that he would be charging a fee and I don't believe your students believed he would be profitting "off their backs."
[snip]
Best,
Irene
We hear some of the students who signed up for the database were none too pleased. (Although Pierce told us that no one has opted out so far.) So Pierce sent out a notice to students explaining why he was now collecting from employers:
I have incurred significant costs, in both time and out-of-pocket expenses, putting everything together (approximately $9,000 in time and effort and $3,000 in actual expenses for jointdegree.com, jdmba.com, and a software tool to enable employers to search the resume book based on key criteria).
He adds that he was planning to offer a complimentary copy to businesses that don't want to pay.
We got in touch with Pierce to hear his side. Somewhere in his 1,816-word reply, he acknowledges his mistake in not disclosing the fee and explains what he meant to say in his original e-mail:
I was trying to assure JD/MBAs, administrators, and employers that I was not piloting the project for my own exposure, which is entirely true. I have already accepted an offer upon graduation, and my resume is not included in the employer edition. So no exposure for me (until now).
Machiavellian manipulation or honest mistake? The call is yours: we've included all the e-mails after the jump (minus the seven-screen monstrosity he sent us). Either way, he's now bound to get more exposure than if he'd done it right. So it goes.
From: Nathan Pierce [mailto:natepierce@xmission.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:06 PM
To: OCS
Subject: JD/MBA Resume Book Project
[Redacted],
I spoke with your office staff today and they suggested I reach out to you via email.
I am a JD/MBA at NYU, and I am working on putting together a resume book of JD/MBAs at top schools across the country. I am doing this for two reasons: 1) to build a network and community of JD/MBAs, and 2) to help JD/MBAs connect with employers interested in their particular skillset. The resume book will be distributed to all participating JD/MBAs, and will be made available online to the joint degree community. This will give everyone useful information regarding the background, expertise, interests, and contact information of JD/MBAs across the country. It will also be distributed to a growing list of interested employers.
There are a total of three distributions: 1) directly to participating
JD/MBAs via email, 2) online where it will be available to the joint
degree community, and 3) directly to interested employers. Each
responding JD/MBA is given the option to restrict his or her resume
from any one of these three distributions -- some have already secured employment but would like to network with other JD/MBAs, some are sensitive about their personal information and would prefer their resume to only be distributed to employers. At this point I have received 24 resumes from JD/MBAs at 6 top universities, and responses indicate that more than 90% are excited to participate in all three distributions.
However, I have not received any responses from JD/MBAs at Harvard, and I am concerned they may not be aware of the project. Are you able to announce me the project to JD/MBAs at Harvard? I have prepared the attached description of the project for circulation to your JD/MBA students.
Please note that I am not doing this for my own agenda -- I have already secured employment following graduation. I am doing this project because I think it will benefit many JD/MBAs, and because I
myself would like to be a part of a national network of JD/MBAs.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter. Please let me know if you have any questions about this project, and whether you are able to make this announcement to the JD/MBAs at Harvard.
Respectfully,
Nate Pierce
From: Irene Dorzback
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 4:05 PM
To: [Redacted]
Subject: Re: TIME SENSITIVE JD/MBA Resume Book
Colleagues:
I just learned from a law firm that our student, Nate Pierce, has sent a promotional letter to the law firms offering the "top schools" JD/MBA resume book to them for a $500 fee. There are 52 resumes in the book (which I have not seen). No where in his communication to you did he indicate that he would be charging a fee and I don't believe your students believed he would be profitting "off their backs."
Please note that I am not doing this for my own agenda -- I have already secured employment following graduation. I am doing this project because I think it will benefit many JD/MBAs, and because I myself would like to be a part of a national network of JD/MBAs.
The Vice Dean has written to him to request a meeting to discuss this project. But I wanted to let you know what has transpired and to assure you that we are taking this matter very seriously. I don't think there is anything to do yet with respect to notifying your students until I have more information, but I leave that decision to you.
Best,
Irene
From: Nathan Pierce
To: [Students who signed up]
Hi all,
Please note I am still waiting to hear back from a few more employers before making the employer edition distribution. I apologize for the delay, this part of the initiative has proven significantly more complicated than I expected. To date we have approximately 12 employers who confirmed interest in reviewing the book. I have reached out to approximately another 35 employers, and am waiting to hear back from a larger portion of them before distributing the employer edition.
The main purpose of this email is to address an issue that has been brought to my attention as a potential problem. I have decided to request a subscription fee of $500 from employers in order to recover costs. I have incurred significant costs, in both time and out-of-pocket expenses, putting everything together (approximately $9,000 in time and effort and $3,000 in actual expenses for jointdegree.com, jdmba.com, and a software tool to enable employers to search the resume book based on key criteria). From the outset I have adopted a policy of offering a complimentary copy to any employer who declines the fee, and have decided to offer the book without any fee request at all to the top 3-5 employers in each major category (law firm, investment bank, consulting firm). To date only a couple of employers have agreed to the fee, and only a few have declined. Of those declining, one has accepted the complimentary copy, one has declined, and the others I haven't heard back from.
I believe the resume book is a valuable resource: I believe it creates value for JD/MBAs and for employers, and I believe it is appropriate to request employers to pay a fee in exchange for this value, and to recover my costs. However, I did not disclose the employer fee to everyone before requesting a fee from employers (I thought it only natural that a fee be requested to recover costs, and especially considering my intention to comp the book to any employer declining the fee in any event), and this has been raised to my attention as an issue. I believe I have made it clear to some of you individually that I intended to explore a fee with employers in order to recover costs, but this was not made clear to everyone.
At this point the resume book has really begun to gain traction, and being included in the book will be sure to gain you additional exposure to a number of top employers - at this point 12 to be precise. However, if you feel the fee is inappropriate and you do not want to be involved, please let me know and I will remove you from the book. If a significant portion decides to opt out, I will have to consider the employer edition a bust and stop work on it altogether. At this point only one person who was confirmed for the employer edition has decided to opt out.
If you think requesting a fee to cover costs is appropriate, I would appreciate your thoughts as well.
Best,
Nate Pierce
33 Comments | 
Digg This | 
Share on Facebook | 
Print This Post | 
Email This Post
Read more: business school, law school, NYU
Email – 
Search
About
Report a bug
Archives
RSS Feed
March 27th, 2007 at 10:26 am
ehem, do point out that NYU is not in the Ivy League. Even their top-rated law school/business school doesn’t earn them access into the Ancient Eight. And nothing upsets high-minded New York people like being excluded despite being from New York.
March 27th, 2007 at 10:41 am
I was just going to point that out, has he paid-off IvyGate for exposure? I suppose it’s legit in the sense that we need to be aware of wannabes such as NYU Law Kid.
March 27th, 2007 at 10:54 am
What did you expect? MBA and JD? Were you expecting a lesson in practical philanthropy for this guy?
March 27th, 2007 at 11:56 am
It’s me, the god-king Machiavellian manipulator.
Thanks for the coverage.
All I have to say is - damn I wish I was as good looking as the guy in the picture.
Details about the JD/MBA Resume Book are available at http://www.jointdegree.com. JD/MBAs may also want to sign up at our new site: http://www.jdmba.com.
Yes we charge a fee to employers for the book, and no I don’t think this betrays the trust of participating JD/MBAs. This is borne out by the participating JD/MBAs, all of whom have stayed on board with the employer edition (and other editions), and several of whom have explicitly confirmed support for the employer fee.
The ‘not for my own agenda’ quote is being taken entirely out of context - I did not mean to imply that I would be happy to incur significant time and expense on the project and make no effort to recoup those costs, only that I was not putting together the book for my personal job search agenda/exposure.
But then a sensible explanation wouldn’t make for a good story, controversy sells best.
Nate
March 27th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
For crying out loud, lay off the guy! We should put your life under a microscope. This site is slanderous crap.
March 27th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
if he’s the guy in the photo, I’d sign up for whatever he’s selling
March 27th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Upon googling, I highly doubt that photo is him. I think he’s the guy on the left of this photo: w4.stern.nyu.edu/emplibrary/Schipper.gif. In which case, no thanks. Though there is also a porn star who calls himself “Nate Pierce.” Thanks, Google.
March 27th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Both jdmba.com and jointdegree.com appear to be based on Drupal, which is open source.
I’d be very interested to hear how he spent “$3,000 in actual expenses for jointdegree.com, jdmba.com, and a software tool…” when each domain costs less than $10/year, hosting is unlikely to be more than $250/year (and that’s being very generous) and the software is free.
March 27th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
How did he come up with “approximately $9,000 in time and effort?” He is still a student right? He must have one high billing rate. I wonder what he charges his professors to lecture him.
March 27th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Exploited, a domain will cost whatever amount the previous owner is willing to sell it for. For some reason, you assume zero acquisition cost. The $10/year figure you quoted is unrelated to this cost.
March 27th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
some guy -
Actually, exploited may have been generous with the $10/year figure. JDMBA is registered through godaddy which is more like $8.95/year. http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=jdmba.com&prog_id=godaddy
The other is registered through domaindiscoverer which charges $9.95/year.
I agree with Pierced - I want to know how he calculated $9,000 in time and effort gathering 52 resumes to distribute to 12 employers.
If that post was from the real Nate, it means he is watching this site. Let’s here the explanation for that one.
March 27th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
OK, I will try to make this easier for you since you are not understanding. Yes, registration may cost $20/year total. However, you too are ignoring acquisition cost. Let’s say I own business.com. Now, let’s also say that you want to buy business.com from me. I will not be willing to sell you that domain for less than several million dollars (in fact, the true owners of that domain sold it for approximately $7.5 million in 1999). So, YES - you will end up paying $10/year in registration costs. BUT, you will also have to pay me several million in acquisition costs. Hope that helps.
March 27th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Checking archive.org shows that JDMBA was being put to great use before Nate registered it. He must have paid a HUGE acquisition cost to get it.
March 27th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
I am not going to detail my financials or the financials of the project here - and no, I’m not a porn star.
Suffice it to say the $3,000 is comprised primarily of acquisition costs (some guy is right, the domains weren’t free) and a fee to an independent software developer for putting together a professional, elegant software tool that will enable employers to search the JD/MBA resume book/database and retrieve only those records meeting key criteria.
It is true http://www.jointdegree.com and http://www.jdmba.com are running Drupal, which is free (thanks Drupal!!!), and that registration and hosting are minimal.
I’ve spent over 150 hours on the project, use whatever billing rate you like.
March 27th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Hey IvyGate, stop wasting your time on this NYU bullshit. Nobody gives a shit about this douche’s self-promotion.
March 27th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
What about us poor JD/MDs? So very sad…. to be below an JD/MBA in the pecking order.
March 27th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Actually, http://www.jointdegree.com is supposed to be a resource for JD/MDs as well (in addition to other joint degree programs), I just haven’t been able to build momentum in that direction yet. If you would like to use space on the site for JD/MD information and resources I would be happy to work something out. Just contact me directly.
March 27th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
I stand corrected on the acquisition costs. Hadn’t noticed that jdmba.com had been registered since 1999 and jointdegree.com since 2004. I guess the domain squatters made out well on this one.
March 27th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
This is also the same guy who tried to sell his spot in a class and brought the attention of the administration on a lot of other things that they wouldn’t have otherwise known about. The self-righteousness and self-indulgence is a wonder to behold.
March 27th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
For those of you who are JD/MBA’s what is your issue? You did not pay anything to get the exposure in JD/MBA resume book, right? Even so, having firms pay to access your information gives the content (your resumes) higher perceived value and credibility. Which in turn may make a firm more likely to contact you than the guy/girls whose resume was 1 of 500 in the HR in-box. They do, after all want to justify the $500 investment.
And “Frank”, you are the type of person who makes the rest of us look bad (if in fact you did attend an IVY)… very unbecoming, don’t be such a snob.. let your resume/pedigree/character speak for itself.
March 27th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Bitter SBA: I never tried to sell a spot in class. Not sure who you are talking about, but it’s not me.
No comment: actually the JD/MBAs involved in the resume book employer edition don’t seem to have an issue at all. In fact, some have responded to me with precisely your analysis. Also, none of the JD/MBAs in the employer edition have decided to opt out of the book because of the fee.
March 27th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
It looks like Irene Dorzback oversees Career Services - shouldn’t NYU’s Career Services director (and other school’s career service offices for that matter) be supporting projects like this that increase students’ exposure to employers rather than trying to sabotage it? Unless that’s what she intends to do when she says she is “taking this matter very seriously.”
And speaking of “profitting off of the backs of students” - isn’t that _exactly_ what private and Ivy League schools do?
March 27th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Bitter SBA: see this article for a pretty good explanation of the NYU class seat black market controversy, how it developed, and who it was that brought the attention of the administration to the issue - it wasn’t me.
http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/March-April-2005/scene_bitkower_marapr05.msp
March 27th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
I, for one, fail to see any Big Problem here. How has the fact that Nate Pierce is making some money off of this venture hurt anyone? The students are contributing their resumes, and accruing any benefits from that contribution, for free.
If monster.com sells resumes to potential employers but collects them for free, does that make monster.com illegitimate?
At my law school, the law and technology journal often put on a speaker series, replete catered lunches paid for by corporate sponsors. Essentially, they were selling a room full of fresh meat to top Silicon Valley tech law firms. The students paid nothing to attend. How is this arrangement in any way substantively different from what Mr. Pierce did?
I suppose you could argue that Mr. Pierce failed to disclose to the resume authors the fact that his was a for-profit venture, whereas monster.com, and the tech law journal, are up front about the commercial nature of their activities. I find that objection unpersuasive, however. In the case of monster.com, the arrangements between employers and the website, if publicly disclosed at all, is undoubtedly buried in a mound of fine print. In the case of the tech law journal, the profitability of the lunches may have been an “open secret,” but it was a secret nonetheless. Indeed, I suspect that outsiders know a good deal less about the tech law journal’s sponsorship levels than we do about Mr. Pierce’s price point of $500. And let’s face it, $500 from, say the top 20 law and B-schools may pay for Pierce’s bar trip, but it’s not a huge amount of income.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:54 am
temoc94: just one minor clarification. The fee is to employers, not law schools or business schools as you mention at the end of your comment. I appreciate your comments, and it seems several JD/MBAs in the employer edition who have emailed me directly would agree with your analysis.
Also, I agree (of course) with Applepie that school officials should be supporting the project, not torpedoing it for arguable process errors that I have made every effort to cure.
March 28th, 2007 at 1:29 am
This post is disconcerting, IvyGate. It reminds me of the time Facebook stopped being elite. It starts off slowly like this and then it snowballs.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:03 am
Nate, I stand corrected. My apologies. I believe it was actually the Law and Business Society and the JD/MBA Student Support Group (or whatever the names were) that made me bitter on this one. That was a double budget that should never have been granted.
But I digress…you’re clearly good at raising money despite what the rules intend. I suppose that’s admirable in a business-person. What can I say, except well done? Well done.
April 1st, 2007 at 5:12 pm
http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/clb/events.cfm?doc_id=1188
OMG. Check out his photo. Please remove the ABOVE PIC.
April 1st, 2007 at 5:23 pm
http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/clb/events.cfm?doc_id=1188
scroll to p. 22.
April 3rd, 2007 at 6:57 pm
i agree with the sentiments of previous posters. who cares about an nyu law grad? certainly no one except nate does and giving him exposure is giving him more reason to justify self-promotion. and besides it’s already been established even by nate that he is not good looking. let’s stick strictly to schools that actually count please. nothing personal against you nate. i would really hate for you to think less of the people you intend on profiting from.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:45 pm
I have a free JDMBA site where I don’t charge employers :-)
http://www.jd-mba.com
June 25th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
“who cares about an NYU law grad”…interestingly enough a lot of ivy league grads would kill for a seat at NYU law–I suppose that means that they do care. Besides, NYU law, these days, is consistently ranked over prominent Ivy law schools–including cross-town rival Columbia.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Sorry you couldn’t get into med school dooder.