Harvard-Yale Rivalry Escalates to Beef, Now With A Soundtrack
When we said kids aren't taking Harvard-Yale seriously this year, we hadn't seen these guys. A Yale rap crew called 108 Tongues just released its third annual edition of the call-to-arms anthem, "Fuck Harvard." The song (and its previous versions) gives the Crimson-Bulldog rivalry a Bloods-Crips overlay: "With thousands of pounds I got a mack 10/ Attackin from the front and the sides/ With rims on my ride/ Riding up to Cambridge commitin homicide." Subtle it is not, but times like this don't call for subtlety. They call for gats.
We expect some sort of response from Harvard, even if it's just a Snoop-like call for peace. Either way, good to see the Yale hip-hop tradition that spawned "BK2Nite" is alive and well.
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November 15th, 2006 at 2:19 pm
http://www.cayugaswaiters.com/new/downloads/mp3/harvard.mp3
November 15th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
those kids need serious help…
November 15th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
this is fuckin WACK man. all they talk about is raping women. assholes.
November 15th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
I agree with Jocelyn. What are they thinking writing a song about rape? The lyrics are about as inane as it gets.
November 15th, 2006 at 10:37 pm
posers…not rappers…posers.
November 15th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
1. you are not hard. you go to yale. you work at goldman sachs during the summer.
2. talking about RAPING college women is not a joke. you have no idea what kind of terrible memories you could be conjuring up with this GARBAGE. that’s a pretty fucking serious issue. what a waste of recording time.
3. whoever the girl is that sings on this track should be so ashamed of herself. for me, that’s the most disappointing part…that a woman would even consider endorsing this noise. congratulations. you’ve officially wasted your talent. AND you’re going to hell.
4. i’m a female, if you havent figured that out, but i could definitely kick the shit out of every member of this little after school garage band, and my girls would be right there with me. go lift some weights, you scrawny pieces of shit.
fuck outta here.
November 15th, 2006 at 11:03 pm
Note that at Cornell, we don’t say we’ll rape women. We just say you suck at hockey and you don’t deserve your grades. Most of those fucks on the soundtrack probably wouldn’t recognize a gat if they were slapped across teh face with one.
November 15th, 2006 at 11:35 pm
“http://www.yaledailynews.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=34345.”
What happened to your talk of gats and AKs yalie bitches?
November 15th, 2006 at 11:41 pm
that photo of a peace rally helps point out the ridiculous stance of the song–true, it’s really offensive, but it’s so offensive and ridiculous that it’s obviously meant to be so. obviously these guys don’t have fucking gats, and everybody knows it, including them. if they thought that raping women was cool, would they put it in a song that has “shank pointed at the north” in the chorus? no, because they wouldn’t find it funny, if they thought it were serious.
November 16th, 2006 at 12:03 am
If they go to school in New Haven, I’m sure they would recognize a gat.
November 16th, 2006 at 12:28 am
Harvard won’t retaliate. We never do. B/c we don’t bother to hate Yale the way they hate us. It’s a waste of time. And we kick their asses in November without letting all this shit consume us year-round.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:03 am
Intellectual rappers, now that’s scary.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:08 am
Yale sucks, Whatev…
November 16th, 2006 at 1:17 am
why should we retaliate? the game is fun, but we’ve won the past however many years. given that we actually care about our education, we’re too busy to spend time writing stupid raps about a football rivalry. Harvard is still better, and it’s people like this rappers that make yale have to lie about their rape statistics on campus. It’s also why people will continue to chooose Harvard over yale.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:26 am
Daddy got me into Yale/
I’ve done nothing to get paid/
Gonna rap about raping hos/
Because I’ve never been laid/
Holla
November 16th, 2006 at 1:46 am
Yeah. This is by far the worst 108 Tongues “Fuck Harvard” track. The stuff about raping women is horrible, and none of it is really that funny. It’s actually embarrassing – and I tend to like a lot of MC Platano’s stuff.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:54 am
“that photo of a peace rally helps point out the ridiculous stance of the song–true, it’s really offensive, but it’s so offensive and ridiculous that it’s obviously meant to be so. obviously these guys don’t have fucking gats, and everybody knows it, including them. if they thought that raping women was cool, would they put it in a song that has “shank pointed at the north” in the chorus? no, because they wouldn’t find it funny, if they thought it were serious.”
thank you. That’s exactly what we were thinking about – almost verbatim – when we were in the studio. You think that I think I’m going to knife someone? You think I think it’s at all plausible that I’m going to be carrying Mac-10’s up to Boston? Like Fat Joe says on Pandemic, the opening track of his new LP (Me, Myself, and I, in stores now, on Kosh): “don’t you know we rappers are great liars?”
I’ve looked over my verse, and I feel that I didn’t cross any lines (for a transcript of my 16 bars, email me: jason.g.chu@yale.edu). I will agree that some of my other crew members said things that are offensive and morally wrong. But I will also say that none of them said anything in which they actually believe. We’re in this for hip-hop, for the fun of spitting lines and for the love of the music. This isn’t about Yale pride (I couldn’t give two cents about any notion of school spirit) or about being “hard” or “gangsta”.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:10 am
And, yes, I’m sure that my comment will be met primarily with derision. The thought of an Ivy League student actually being involved in rap music? Absurd.
Right now, one of the hottest underground groups (Kidz in the Hall, signed to Rawkus Records) is fronted by an mc who graduated from UPenn. Hall of Justus group Little Brother is comprised of three graduates of North Carolina Central University.
I see two reasons for outrage and scorn here. One I accept as viable and the other as untenable. If you are incensed at the song my crew put together because of the lyrical content of some (might I note: each member writes his own verses), then I concur with you – and even sympathize.
But if you are denigrating the music we make or the rhymes that we write because of our ethnicities, level of education, or any other quality incidental to our raps, then I would argue that your stance is a result of socioeconomic biases against what counts as “rap music” and who can perform it.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:18 am
You’re a pretty clever one there, Grand Master. Yeah, everyone might write his own verses, but it’s still your “crew,” you disgusting lowlife. Directly calling out harvard women and explicitly stating that you’ll rape them and stain the sheets crimson? Yeah, argue all you want about how it’s art and creative expression, but when you finally shut the fuck up, maybe you’ll finally realize that it’s also deeply disturbing verbal abuse and harassment.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:21 am
Thanks for the compliment. I’ll take you at the letter of your words, not the spirit in which they were written.
Now, how is it that you propose the arguments about “art and creative expression” are to be so easily bypassed for what I see as mere ad hominem arguments against the content of said expression? I agree that the content of much of the song is deeply disturbing. But I do not agree that the discussion of freedom of expression can be dismissed with a “shut the fuck up”
November 16th, 2006 at 2:56 am
My apologies, I hadn’t read your original posts before making the last post.
But dude, seriously, step off your high horse – we get that you can use words very creatively and in ways that cause people to react emotionally.
But this isn’t an issue of agreeing or disagreeing – it’s about this basic socio-ethico-moral standard for all forms of expression that you guys have clearly disregarded with many excuses and no reasonable justifications.
All we’re asking is that you please realize that while you might have simply been spitting lines for the love of hip-hop music, which is understandable, your choice to spit out certain lines in profane detail have caused and elicited tremendously negative emotions in listeners.
The music actually sounds damn good and the fact that so many people are responding so strongly to it is really a testament to the strength and potential of your music. But please, just consider leaving explicitly violent references to women out of your lines next time – there’s just no need to contribute more to the ongoing and widespread rape, killing, abuse, degredation, and trafficking of women throughout the world.
November 16th, 2006 at 3:08 am
First off, thanks for taking a look back at what I’ve been saying. I appreciate your ability to dialogue in a mature, adult manner.
I have strongly considered the place of such explicitly violent references in my music, and have actually constantly endeavoured to not include said references (along with asking my other crew members to watch what they say though, obviously, I haven’t censored them). Again, I would ask you to listen to my verse (the one which starts “So again we came back to lambast a captive audience”)… I would claim (though I may be wrong) that it’s fairly clean.
I guess, then, I have a question to pose to you. The message I’ve attempted to express in my own music and lyrics is obviously being overshadowed by my colleagues’ over-the-top lyrics. I don’t hear anyone commending “that guy who did the third verse” for not making comments about rape (in fact, I don’t think I even swore in my verse. There’s nary a ‘fuck’ or a ’shit’ to be heard). I do hear everyone talking about that guy in the second verse talking about rape. How can I disseminate my own music if the only thing that people seem to hear and react to is negativity?
Lupe Fiasco, one of the finest lyricists out there now, dropped an album and moved 74,000 units his first week. The Game, one of the biggest trouble/controversy magnets out in the rap game now, just dropped an album. They’re projecting his first-week sales to be 300-400 thousand.
I’m not saying that I want to sell CD’s. I do, however, rap because I want people to hear my message. But how in the world am I to do this if I have to choose between being overlooked amidst negativity, or being lost in a sea of apathy?
November 16th, 2006 at 3:16 am
What up everybody. The line that is being called most into question was written and recorded by me, so I figured I owe some type of response to the various comments about it and emails I have been receiving. In general, my lyrics have been considered wholly insensitive by many in the past and to a certain extent that has been a major part of my image as an emcee. In general as a performer, I try to push boundaries, comfort zones, and notions of political correctness as much as possible, whether having to do with race, gender, sexuality, class, religion, etc. and sometimes I succeed satirically without offending too many people and sometimes I really fail. I didn’t mean for those lyrics to provoke as much discomfort and pain as they clearly have. I definitely want to apologize to anyone who has felt hurt as a result of it. I am truly sorry for the visceral reactions that went hand in hand with a line that crude. I feel that the discussion should continue in an intelligent way about the social implications of offensive hip hop in this song and in general, but also in ways that breaking down and exposing stereotypes via flagrant and offensive humor can help to promote dialogue about painful topics and unity.
November 16th, 2006 at 3:56 am
Well at least none of these lyrics were plagiarized … unlike some crimson articles and cartoons … Seriously, I’m undecided on the issue. I think it’s always good to have someone push through the boundaries of social norms in terms of what can be said (as opposed to done) because otherwise the plaque of political correctness will keep growing thicker and thicker. On the other hand, I the use of the phrase “rape” spoiled the song to the point that you cringe when you get to that point in the song if you listen a second time and you’re looking over your shoulder to see who may see you listening to it. I hope being at Yale, Harvard, Ivies, etc, the song will not actually influence anyone to commit rape and that its message does not even subliminally cause anyone to act more aggressively towards women. If there’s a chance it will, the song should be taken down.
November 16th, 2006 at 3:59 am
FUCK THIS SHIT. 108 IS THE TRUTH!!!!!
November 16th, 2006 at 8:35 am
yep, here we go….”pushing the boundaries”….”freedom of speech”…”if you don’t like it just turn it off”….it was just a matter of time before that kind of tripe surfaced. In other words, you’re too uncreative and mentally feeble to come up with something clever and or even funny, so just be violent and savor all that great negative press. Yeah, you a badass, bro! “I’ll push some comfort zones y’all…here at ummm..Yale….rap about rape and murdah…aww yeeah”. I’ll bet you’ve never once been a victim of violent crime…no doubt your daddy’s home security system prevented even the most minor sort of break-in…..it is now my sincere wish that you or someone close to you in your family is victimized by pointless violence, and then subjected to your craptastic lyrics. Let’s see what kind of “visceral reactions” you and your family get from it, you moron. I’d expect crap like this from a slouch at a community college but aren’t you supposed to be going to Yale? Oh, case in point…here you are posted here at IvyGate blog, as a joke! You are laughing stocks, the court jesters. How’s that for a Game, y’all??
November 16th, 2006 at 8:53 am
MC Plátano says: “I definitely want to apologize to anyone who has felt hurt as a result of it. I am truly sorry for the visceral reactions that went hand in hand with a line that crude.”
There’s a pattern of behavior here. See this:
http://www.yaleherald.com/article.php?Article=3702
What an attention-grabbing little shithead. Where the hell is Bill O’Reilly when you need him? With any luck, this will be the biggest PR disaster for Yale since they admitted that Taliban guy.
November 16th, 2006 at 9:23 am
Funniest to me: the apparently real feelings hatred between the schools. Funny because: if we’d gotten in at the other school and not our own, we’d probably be at the other school.
Exceptions: legacies on either end, irrational people.
side note: for those in the Ivy community most troubled by this travesty that apparently cost the lives of many puppies and butterflies, look into the 12-step healing process at http://www.removingthestickfromyourass.org
November 16th, 2006 at 9:25 am
should be an “of” between “feelings” and “hatred” up there. I know many would be all too eager to point that typo out.
November 16th, 2006 at 10:12 am
4th Verse.
I apologize for the hurt that certain aspects of our song has, or may have caused. I understand that I may have crossed some line with my last 4 bars, but other than that, my verse is so entirely in jest that for somebody to take a single thing I said seriously would be a gross error–I mention the “rims on my ride,” for god’s sake, and I call my flow a “white-out pen on your crimson ass,” which is 1) kind of funny, and 2) funny in a not-very-offensive way, and 3) absurd.
I agree with what Grand Master said, especially concerning the individual MC’s writing their own lines, and that having some bearing on this discussion, but moreover I would like to argue that artists have alternate personas and characters through which they express themselves–does Sacha Baren Cohen want to “throw the Jew down the well?” As Dave Chapelle’s show puts it, is Wayne Brady really a pimp who is going to “choke a bitch?”
The idea that for some reason we cannot be legitimate hip hop artists simply because we may (or may not–financial aid exists. Don’t forget that) have socioeconomic privileges is seriously misguided. There are two reasons to think that, and they both reflect more poorly on those who have attacked us for that reason than on us: either you believe that hip hop is an art form that is too narrow or alienated from our world for us to experience and then participate in it, or you believe that hip hop is illegitimate as an art form. If any of you had listened to any of our music besides this track, which I have already equated with acting, perhaps you would take a different stance.
November 16th, 2006 at 10:57 am
Music video?
Sorry, sorry… mean joke.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:08 am
Those who think rap is an illegitimate form of art are mistaken. Those who think this example of rap is a weak attempt and abysmal failure at remotely representing the genre are correct. I’m not going to badmouth these guys saying they have complexes, are just trying to get some action on the weekends, or just weren’t loved by their parents, because that’s already understood. I just think it’s funny that these kids try to take the focus away from The Game by putting out this weak rap. Truth is, this is the closest they can come to being a part of The Game. We know they’re not out on the field on Saturday because if they were, they would realize that it’s not the Crimson who gets thrashed on a yearly basis, it’s the “New Haven Crips.”
One Crimson
November 16th, 2006 at 11:28 am
Scoooooorebooaaaard
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00813FA38550C748DDDA00894DE404482
Yale still sucks.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:59 am
I stand by what I said before, including the apology, but would like to respond to “Crimson baaaallin’.” I believe that a true appreciator of hip hop could take two approaches to this song, which are not mutually exclusive approaches. One could listen to the creativity of the lyrics (not all of them, but by no means are none of them quite creative), and the varying styles, catchiness, and variety of the MC’s flows, and judge the song based on its rhythmic and creative merit. I think it does well in this case. It isn’t an amazing song, but it holds its own in terms of form. In this way it represents the genre. The other approach is to solely judge the song based on its content. In this case, it can be seen as entirely offensive, a parody, or some combination of the two. I’m not saying that it’s narrow-minded to take offense to things said in this song–there has always been a debate as to what can be considered a laughing matter, and indeed there are situations in which some things are not. However, I think that both of these approaches must be taken; a song must be judged based on form and content.
November 16th, 2006 at 12:31 pm
If you Harvard shit dicks take this seriously, well then… maybe we will come fucking rape and kill everyone of you sandy vaginas. Muah hahahahahahahahhahahah. You fucking tools
November 16th, 2006 at 12:32 pm
More thoughts. Let’s try to keep our posts intelligent and relevant. “What crap,” I’m going to let your ignorance speak for itself. In general, I appreciate what people have been saying about the line between parody and abuse. But I just want to bring something up in terms of aggressive hip hop. As you are all aware, I have received a lot of criticism about the rape line, and rightly so. But I haven’t heard anything about my lyrics about cutting throats or dropping atom bombs on Harvard’s campus. As hip hop listeners, has murder become totally desensitized but rape is still a sore spot? We got some comments about all the gat stuff, but more along the lines of us being stupid posers and silly assholes fronting and trying to seem “gangsta.” No one has told me, “You shouldn’t rap about guns and killing because it brings up painful memories.” Nobody seems to really care about the death rap stuff, and I find that pretty interesting. Another question: how many of you all like Eminem or any other extremely misogynistic rapper and have listened to them spit about the most heinous shit imaginable, but when it hits a little closer to home, aka Harvard women, you flip out? I’m not assuming you’re all hypocrites. But all of you should think about when and why you get offended and what kind of material do you ignore or even enjoy as opposed to the material you respond to in a negative way.
November 16th, 2006 at 12:35 pm
please don’t feed the trolls. they won’t go away if you feed them.
how do you think their webcounters are reacting to all this publicity? just sayin’.
November 16th, 2006 at 12:40 pm
There is a big difference between what Borat and Dave Chappelle do and “The 108 Tongues”: Borat and Chappelle are funny, Gabe Hernandez and his merry band of idiots are only funny in so far as it is ridiculous that anyone could be so retarded. I think I’ve seen this movie twice already – first, in CB4 and then again in Malibu’s Most Wanted. As best as I recall, neither story ended well for the respective gaggle of posers.
November 16th, 2006 at 12:43 pm
If you idiots get so bent out of shape over a song, why don’t all you Harvard “gangstas,” who are so obsessed with pointing out that we’re not gangsters, do something instead of whining on the blogosphere. Do you listen to rap? Rap is about hyperbole, personna, and a blurring of the lines between who one is behind the mic and day-to-day. Yeah, this song is fucking stupid, and it’s one of the silliest pieces of shit I’ve ever been a part of, but your methods of attacking it are all wrong. Go ahead and yell about how rape is bad. No shit you fuckers, it’s a joke. On the note of how gangster people are. I don’t claim to be a gangster, but I was almost killed during some shady business two weeks ago, my house has no security, and it’s been broken into multiple times over my life. Just because you might be a rich silverspoon sucking piece of shit doesn’t mean we all are. Keep your faceless comments to your fucking selves
November 16th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
Gabe,
Didn’t you learn this lesson already?:
http://www.yaleherald.com/article.php?Article=3702
Just own up to the truth here. You’re an attention-seeking moron who, it seems, wants to hang around Yale for as long as it takes to attract nationwide media attention to your ridiculous stunts. Wouldn’t be easier for Yale to just get rid of you than to risk the impending bout of negative publicity you are about to heap on the institution? I would think so.
Take a tip: stop rationalizing your idiocy and finally graduating from college. If fifty million Americans can do it, so can you.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
“Go ahead and yell about how rape is bad. No shit you fuckers, it’s a joke.” What is a joke? Rape? Rapping about rape? Threatening to rape? Only to rapists is it a joke. It is certainly not a joke to those who have experienced rape, which includes plenty of female Harvard students. And, “Nemesis the Venomous”, we’d all love to hear about how hard your life but unfortunately no one gives a shit. You were almost killed a couple of weeks ago??? Your house has no security??? Wow. Excuse while I bow down and worship your gangster-ness. Time to face facts kids: You somehow landed yourself at the very epitome of privilege and the American elite. 99% of the world’s starving, struggling population would give anything to be where you are now. And how do you use this opportunity? By pretending to be angry, angst-ridden, and by inflicting hate and hurt upon those who did absolutely nothing to incur it. Very little besides that. Then, when you’re called on your shit, you start blaming gangster rap, the hip hop culture, Eminem, Dave Chappelle, and even fucking Borat. I don’t get it – did they write “Fuck Harvard” or did you? It would be downright hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic. Admit you fucked up, apologize, take the song down, and shut the fuck up. Then go and collect your cushy job and Goldman Sachs and lead the privileged life your Ivy degree entitles you to. Get yourself a security system while you are at it and try to stay out of the “shady business”. You have nothing to be angry about. Nothing.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
Actually, reality, more of the world’s population is now overweight than it is starving / unfed. Just fyi. Overweight, as Fast Food Nation / Super Size Me will be quick to tell us, doesn’t necessarily mean well-nourished, but hey. Can’t have it all.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:16 pm
1. Since when does attending Yale (or Harvard or any Ivy school) mean that you grew up in similarly privileged circumstances? MC Matador touched on this, but really…Yale education does not necessitate an upper class upbringing. “What crap,” how do you know if “daddy’s home security system” protected these guys?
2. Yes, the rape lyrics are extremely offensive. But like Platano said, why is it only the rape line that we seem to be reacting to? It seems to me that the whole entire song is just absolutely fucking ridiculous. If it is clear throughout the song that 108 and friends do not actually have gats and do not really intend to go murder Harvard people (with the apparent exception of Nemesis), why do we suddenly take them seriously when rape is mentioned as one of the horrific acts on their to-do lists?
Bottom line: rape is not a laughing matter, but neither is murder. People are being selectively sensitive.
3. just a remark on dimma’s statement that the girl on the song is going to hell…expressing your displeasure about/disapproval of the song is one thing, and you made very valid points. You must really be perfect, though, if you can comfortably condemn someone you don’t know to eternal damnation based on 8 bars of a stupid rap song.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
Of course we wrote the song, thank you for pointing that out. I absolutely did not “blame” hip hop culture, Eminem, or Dave Chappelle, nor did MC Plátano. I equated this act with the act of putting on a persona to express a sentiment in the same vein as Cohen and Chappelle, and MC Plátano called into question the complete lack of criticism towards any of the non-sexual violent acts mentioned in the song, and the idea that because we are not “gangster,” we shouldn’t pretend we are. If we were “gangster,” would this be a legitimate song, and earn respect? I would hope that would make it entirely less respectable, seeing as I consider killing, raping, and senseless violence to be…exactly that: senseless and deplorable. How did being a “gangster” become something respectable in hip hop?
November 16th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
“ctually, reality, more of the world’s population is now overweight than it is starving”
Do they teach you about citing your sources up at Yale?
November 16th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
Regardless of your stance, the way that “ok” just posted is the kind of discussion that should be had about these issues. If you want to cuss us out for being in the Ivy League, that’s your prerogrative, but it doesn’t reflect well on you. “A stupid rap song” may be the right description, but at least “ok” made points that led up to it. Even if you’re way on the other side, make reasonable arguments and we’ll listen.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
The point is that Gabe, Jason, and co. somehow managed to be unbelievably offensive without being remotely funny.
You guys embarrassed Yale and made us all look like a bunch of shitheads. Fuck “freedom of expression.” You guys should just stop talking and hope that you didn’t cause a lot of long-term damage.
This isn’t “Lickin’ a Bum” – that was clearly ridiculous, satirical, and funny (in an intentionally offensive way). “Fuck Harvard 2006″ is just garbage, and – having heard your other stuff – I’m surprised you guys managed to leave the studio feeling good about releasing a piece of shit track like this.
When there are countless things to make fun of Harvard about, why would you guys just make these generic, low-life comments? Try to learn from Citizen Q’s verses in the 2004 song. He was aware of a lot of funny things at Harvard and duly mocked them.
Next time you put shit like this out, don’t tell people you’re from Yale.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
Matador,
It pains me have to point this out to you, but rape is a particularly sensitive subject because so many college students have either been raped, had someone attempt to rape them, or know someone who has been through such an experience. It touches a raw nerve. Threats of murder, like the Inquisition, are something college students generally have less experience with and so are unlikely to be as personally offended by. Did you really need me to point that out that you? Really?
And you are dead wrong in asserting that you did not blame hip hop culture, Borat etc. Of course you did. Hence, your feeble attempts to place this garbage song in some supposed tradition of satire, hip hop culture etc. etc. “They did it and nobody complained [actually they did], so we’re doing it and now why are you complaining?” I have to roll my eyes. It’s called the evasion of personal responsibility, something Ivy Leaguers are very good at it in my observation.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Here’s the thing with the murder/rape thing. Most of us, I would venture to say, have never been murdered. Also, the actual probability of some poor eli wannabe dropping an a-bomb on Cambridge is somewhere really, really close to nil. So there’s a fair bit of detachment that shields us from actually fearing for our lives when we hear those lyrics. Not that it’s OK in the first place to fantasize and sing about killing people; it is not, whether you are some poor eli wannabe or Eminem. On the other hand, many people in the target audience of this song have been victims of rape, and many more have a pretty high chance of becoming a victim of rape at some point in their life. For both (victims and persons at risk) it is a fear that weighs on us much more than that of brutal murder. As it happens, college women are one of the groups with the highest risk of becoming a victim of rape. The chances, and actualy feasibility of some poor eli wannabe coming to “rape you repeatedly” are astronomically higher than the chances that he will spray you with bullets or drop bombs on your dorm. That should explain why we’re all up in arms about hte rape line. Also, choose to complain about the rape line rather than the murder talk not becuase it is the only offender, but because it is the worst one, and thus a prime example. And I don’t remember all the lyrics (b/c the song just plain sucks), but I’m not sure how the murder lines were worded. I do remember, though, that the rape line was an overt direct threat:”I am going to rape you repeatedly”. NOT OK.
I don’t even know how you thought you could get away with that shit. Oh, that’s right. You go to yale. So sorry.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
When you learn something about hip-hop, talk to me. When you learn something about my music (beyond a simple 16 bars), talk to me. When you learn something about me and my life, then come and talk to me. All I am hearing from the many antagonizers a.k.a. haters are false generalizations and assumptions. We all are not rich kids who know absolutely nothing about the street, guns, or danger. Maybe you assume otherwise because that is what you, another ivy league student, are or because the truth scares you. I need not hypothesize the reasons, but rather point out your false assumptions and argumentative fallacy.
“And how do you use this opportunity? By pretending to be angry, angst-ridden, and by inflicting hate and hurt upon those who did absolutely nothing to incur it. Very little besides that.” Don’t give me that bull. What do you know about what I’m doing with my life? Please, don’t even go there. You heard 16 bars of a parody song that in no way exemplifies who I am and gather that I am doing nothing with my time nor making the most of my career at Yale? Get the fuck outta here. I’m also sure that Gabe can speak for himself, but I’d just like to ask Yadda Yidda if you were expecting Gabe to take advantage of acceleration credits and graduate early. I ask this because what you said about his need to graduate already like fifty million other Americans makes absolutely no sense unless you do have this expectation because Gabe is completing his fourth year at Yale and well on his way to graduating along with the most of the rest of the Yale undergraduates who matriculated in 2003. You make it sound like he’s delaying graduation just to release an annual Fuck Harvard song and piss you off.
But I digress. Back to your fallacies… Not every Yale graduate plans to work for Goldman Sachs, so seriously, stop with the generalizations. Nor are we promoters of rape. If you want to start spewing negative abssurdities, write a song about it, and get back to me. I doubt you have the talent to do that. By the way, we realize that Yale has lost the game several years consecutively now. Nowhere in our song do we claim a thing about football, so please take your non sequiter aruguments elsewhere. Scoreboard? I see it, 3 years of Fuck Harvard tracks/0 Fuck Yales. It is apparent by the several argumentative falliacies present in your statements that you are simply speaking out of angry emotions than on solid grounds. If you take a moment to think about why we would write such ridiculous lyrics, you would probably realize what the song means. It isn’t an argument attesting to Yale’s superiority, for we need no argument for that blatant truth. This is a project that announces school pride for some, practices lyrical manipulation for others, and is only a ridiculous yet fun tradition for even others. I’m glad you want to play the game of expressing ridiculous falsities toward the other. As I said earlier, make a track, and let’s hear it. You obviously have something to say.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:04 pm
Responding to the posts a couple before this one: I understand the offense of the rape line. I hope those who posted read this. I did not condone that line, and it’s the one in particular I’m referencing when I talk about the offense and hurt caused by the song. I didn’t write the line, and I understand the personal nature of it and why it’s in a different category. What I was writing about, if you would please carefully read my previous posts, was of a different nature. I don’t feel the need to spell it out again. I am sorry for that line, and I don’t think rape is funny, nor do I turn a blind eye to the fact that it is a serious, life-altering, and pervasive problem in all levels of society. I can continue to apologize for some of the content, but for other aspects, about the form of the song, etc., I hold my ground.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
Were any of you “rappers” accepted to Harvard?
November 16th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
Yes
November 16th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
I don’t need to flood this, which is why I’ve been allowing multiple comments before responding, but I just reread popivy’s comment. I feel that I very clearly expressed the satiric nature of the song, and this is the exact opposite of “blaming hip hop culture,” or justifying the song’s content because of N.W.A.’s “A Bitch is a Bitch” or Dead Prez and Talib’s “Sharp Shooter,” or anything Biggy or Tupac (who was violent, lest we forget) or Snoop or Dre or anybody ever said. I clearly stated that it’s absurd that those who truly express violent sentiments in lyrics should not be respected for their hip hop, and that posing as expressing those sentiments is a different act entirely. I would urge you not to judge our talents as our artists based on a ludicrous song. It’s upsetting to at least two of us that this song whose content is absurd should receive more discussion than our art that is legitimate both in form and content. While the discussion is still raging, so to speak, I will not promote my own music, because there are still valid points and counterpoints being made, but I would appreciate if those who participate in this debate, at some point in the near future, would listen to some music from each of us individually and then continue to discuss our merit as hip hop artists.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
I also take umbrage at your persistence in referring to us as fake rappers, or as just some Yale kids messing around in a recording studio. Fake gangsters? Maybe, if we were even making the claim to gangsterism or to being thugs. But fake rappers? Our crew, collectively as well as individually, has recorded on multiple continents and with various underground labels and had our music heard by thousands of listeners. I’m just sorry that I don’t meet your obviously well-informed standards for being a “real” rapper.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
I was accepted to Harvard, Princeton, and Brown, but I chose Yale. Oh yeah, and RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE. There I said it. Oh shit, eight chicks just got raped because I said it. get a life tools
November 16th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
On the fake rapper note, my group, The Skeptics has released three albums and I’m working on my solo shit. http://www.myspace.com/nemesisthevenomous So I’m “fake”? Eat a dick
November 16th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
Some of us didn’t bother applying to Harvard because we weren’t interested. If you want to argue that we are making a “Fuck Harvard” track because we’re jealous that we didn’t get in, D, you couldn’t be more incorrect. This song doesn’t have as much to do with a hatred for Harvard in particular than it is simply a battle song that insults its opponent. You can insert Princeton, Penn or any other school to replace almost any “Harvard” lyric, and the song would make just as much sense. Perhaps the reason so many people are angry about this song, other than the rape line (a single 4-5 second line in a 7 minute song), is because you think we seriously hate Harvard and that our exaggeration only reflects our animosity toward Harvard. In case you haven’t realized, there does happen to be a school rivalry, which is why this song is always directed toward Harvard. Now, if any of you have heard Yo Momma jokes or listened to any battle rapping/freestyling, you would know that extreme insults toward the opponent and his or her close relatives are made only in the spirit of the art and cannot be taken out of context. To those who seriously took Platano’s line as an overt direct threat to Harvard women as “o” did, I think you should learn something about the medium being used to present such lyrics and educate yourself on what it truly means for lyrics to be presented in such a context. Believe me, if I ever thought that Platano’s line was a legitimate threat, I would never associate with the man. It would take an absurdly stupid individual to make an actual threat like that, release it to hundreds of friends, and then post it onto the internet. Platano may be bold, but he’s not stupid.
November 16th, 2006 at 3:12 pm
Hey Nemesis: Make a note of that over at the post about ivyTunes.
November 16th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
I’m gonna drop solo stuff on to IvyTunes. If they post it, listen to it. My name will be on it, don’t sweat.
November 16th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
That comma should have been a semicolon. I know people like to grab on to grammatical errors on web debates and call those who make them morons.
November 16th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
MK,
Maybe I misphrased what I meant. I don’t think Whats-his-face was actually threatening Harvard women with rape, but pointing out the difference between hearing “I’m a rapist” and “I am going to rape YOU repeatedly”. The latter is a shitload scarier. I don’t think any of you are stupid. Well, at least not for yalies.
I understand the concept of trashtalking, I actually quite enjoy it, and I recall liking the Fuck Harvard songs of previous years. I still don’t think that the Fuck Harvard 2006 track is good satire. Then again, that’s just my opinion, and I didn’t feel the urge to dissect and minutiously analyze the song. I feel that to truly do honor to the rivalry, a Fuck Harvard song should actually poke fun at Harvard in a way that you couldn’t just plug in “Princeton” or “Bob Jones U” in the song. I mean, come on, there’s plenty to make fun of, and it’s not like IvyGate isn’t helping…If you’re gonna front, elis, at least do it with style.
November 16th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
You make good points, O.
November 16th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
“Scoreboard? I see it, 3 years of Fuck Harvard tracks/0 Fuck Yales.”
This should clear it up, MK (from trumbull’s post):
“The point is that Gabe, Jason, and co. somehow managed to be unbelievably offensive without being remotely funny.
You guys embarrassed Yale and made us all look like a bunch of shitheads.”
Fuck Harvard is barely worthy of a chuckle, let alone a reply. If yalies want to keep wasting their time pulling shit like this, go right ahead. We let it slide because we realize there just isn’t that much to do in New Haven, and we know we’re going to flatten your asses into the ground on Saturday. Taking away your pitiful trash-talk would be like stealing breastmilk from a starving premie.
November 16th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
I’m going to say my piece, then keep quiet because keeping quiet has been a lot more entertaining. A couple points.
Anyway, I don’t want to shine the spotlight on hypocrisy or any of that because it’s been done about a thousand and one times, but how come no one’s commented on the “Early Admission” line. I’m paraphrasing, but I remember it going something like “I’d slide up in your girls without any permission/Now that’s what the fuck I call early admission” or the “charges of manslaughter” line. Again, paraphrasing: “It’s enough the way I’m treating Harvard’s daughters/Walk in with Tims and out with charges of manslaughter”. I mean, if the rape thing has hit such a nerve, then why is it that Gabe’s line is getting all the flak for it. If anyone of you naysayers truly felt the way you say about the horrible act of rape, you would have called out all the examples I pointed out above. But I guess, as can be expected, this whole thing has become a vehicle for some with undue hatred and preconceived notions and all that bullshit to scream the loudest and drown out those who actually have an intelligent thing they’d like to contribute to the forum.
Second and final point: I’m going to reiterate what’s been said more or less already and question why mention of rape elicits reactions that choking prostitutes (Wayne Brady), FDR polio jokes (Seth McFarlane), and slavery (Chapelle) seem to leave alone. I mean; hell, all that’s really not that bad, right?
So, please, before you pounce on the attack, consider, as my man Gabe said before, the true reasons for your animosity and your hatred.
P.S. I don’t mean to deligitimize rape at all as a horrible issue. I merely want to show that, here, it has become merely a vehicle for the expression of opinions that should perhaps have been better left unexpressed.
By the way, my verse is the one about the charges of manslaughter.
November 16th, 2006 at 4:31 pm
Pulitzer Ali,
You make a good point, and you’re probably right about the motivations of some people here. I’d like to point out that it was difficult to make out a lot of the lyrics in the song, esp. with the bad sound quality on the myspace page (or may be that’s just my shitty laptop). The “I’m going to rape you” line stood out because there was no background music to that segment, so it just came out loud and clear amid a sea of mushy lyrics. To be honest, I don’t even remember hearing the lyrics you mention in your post.
November 16th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Not talking about something doesn’t make it go away. If Gabe says he’s going to rape every woman at Harvard, what happens? Does anyone get raped because of it? No one has to liten to this song; although the Grand Master says he’s lambasting a captive audience, in truth, no one put a gun to your head (or threatened to rape you) and forced you to listen to the song.
As for ,”Fuck Harvard is barely worthy of a chuckle, let alone a reply. If yalies want to keep wasting their time pulling shit like this, go right ahead,” apparently it’s worth a dumb interenet comment. Admit it douchebags, we touched a nerve, and if you had made Fuck Yale, you’d be defending whatever crazy shit you said.
Hip-hop beef is about publicity, name-calling, exagguration, and shit-talking: if you don’t know that, you don’t know shit about the nature of hip-hop, so stick your cantab head in your crimson ass; that way, as much shit will go into your mouth as comes out of it
November 16th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
Please, if you feel that this does merit discussion, continue to acknowledge that our comments reflect our individual opinions unless we expressly say otherwise.
November 16th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
Yo this might be my last comment because I’m really don’t like wasting time trying to be sincere and articulate on a fucking blog website when people are just saying the same dumb shit over and over again. A couple of points though. Trumbull, who the fuck are you? you clearly know who I am, so why don’t you send me a fucking email and stop being a little coward bitch. You are an idiot and a hypocrite. “Lickin’ a Bum” was okay but this isn’t? That’s exactly what someone was talking about with the whole selective sensitivity. “Lickin a Bum” was 100 times worse than this. Nothing you have said has been valid or relevant. You are a hip hop ignoramus, and go fuck yourself. And to everyone else, carry on with the comments, intelligent or otherwise, and please be aware that this kind of attention is exactly what we wanted and are always pleased to receive. The song was an offensive joke, people are flipping out, the website hit counter is going crazy, 108 Tongues gets more press. Holla
November 16th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
I’m intrigued by the line in Grand Master’s verse (I think) that goes, “Three years runnin’, ain’t none of y’all replied to us.” Well, there hasn’t been a recorded diss track, but Tha League did a live response at Body & Soul two years ago. Anyway, don’t think the rap scene at Harvard is dead. We have lots of sick MCs and DJs…we just have better things to do with our time and talent than attack your school and denigrate Yale women on wax (mp3). You can claim to assume different personae in your songs, but that doesn’t excuse the fact that IN REALITY you guys are Ivy League-educated men who are feeding into the ignorant and destructive gangsta culture. This is especially disappointing since you are men of color. There, I said it. You could use your voices to shatter stereotypes and speak out against violence and misogyny and other problems that devastate minority communities (and non-minority communities, to be sure). Instead, you use your voices to perpetuate these things. That’s not tight.
November 16th, 2006 at 6:00 pm
Big E, I agree with your beliefs about the positivity that should be spoken in hip-hop songs, especially from those of us who are privileged enough to have an elevated third-person point of view that can see the flaws that need to be discussed. As several of the other artists on the “Fuck Harvard” track have already stated, we have far more songs that we would like you all to hear before you judge our music. Personally, I spent my first year at Yale writing songs with absolutely no profanity and nothing but positive lyrics. My sophomore year, I stayed away from profanity and negativity but began to write more vacuous lyrics that displayed more of a lyrical skill. Now in my junior year, I have began to explore several different styles and worked more on my flow than on my message, such as in this “Fuck Harvard” track. While my heart wants my art to remain as pure as I feel it was during my freshman year, I’d like to note that no one heard a single lyric of mine back then. If simply hearing this song has caused any of you to go onto our myspace links or even become interested to hear what the rest of our music sounds like, then you can understand why I would participate in a song that is very much the opposite of what I am used to writing. Much like some of the professional artists out there, sometimes the only way to have your voice heard and to send that positive message out there that you know can make a difference, you have to morph into an artist who truly isn’t you just to display that you do have the talent. I know that many would refer to this as selling out. I know that I do. I’m sorry for selling out, but I’m glad that my voice is beginning to be heard as a result. I’m just playing the game how it needs to be played. As Platano stated above, the whole point of this song was to get attention, and that has now been accomplished. What happens from here, if anything, will display who we truly are as artists. By the way, I’d love to hear some of the Harvard rappers’ tracks even if they aren’t anti-Yale songs.
November 16th, 2006 at 6:03 pm
“Hip-hop beef is about publicity, name-calling, exaggeration, and shit-talking: if you don’t know that, you don’t know shit about the nature of hip-hop”
Nemesis was right on point with that statement. People need to really lighten up and not take this song so seriously. So WHAT if they talk about rape? they talk about a million other heinous acts of violence and no one is up in arms about it. I have been exposed to all types of violence in my life – from close friends being brutally murdered to being raped MYSELF. And I am not complaining about this song because I understand it is satirical hip-hop. Everyone else needs to stop being little bitches.
That is all.
November 16th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
“Well, there hasn’t been a recorded diss track, but Tha League did a live response at Body & Soul two years ago.”
That’s interesting, because 108 Tongues has been outright told that we’re not allowed to perform at that, or other similar Harvard-Yale events.
November 16th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
And, just for the record, I don’t think the rap scene is dead at Harvard. In fact, I know otherwise. I could care less about a Harvard-Yale rivalry, but I do love hip-hop, and part of hip-hop is demonstrating your skill in front of others. In the days before the internet, they would call this a cipher; now, lamentably, it takes the form of posting an mp3 and waiting for a reply. That’s a part of hip-hop: standing in a circle and dissing some kid you don’t know just because you can.
The point of these tracks isn’t that we think Yale is the shit and Harvard sucks. The whole motive behind releasing them every year is because we want to see what Harvardians can do on a beat. The way I see it, taking the high road here isn’t accomplished by pulling a Jay-Z and staying silent on us, but pulling a Canibus and getting us with a 2nd Round KO.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:48 am
I know and love someone who was raped.
Yes, coolheaded discussion is the way progress is made and people come to understand each other. But this does not de-legitimize gut reactions. And frankly, I am ashamed of anyone whose gut reaction to this song was not at least severe disappointment that such intelligent people (and those of you who have posted here have shown yourselves to be very intelligent) could think that that lyric– that any of the violent lyrics but particularly that one– is in any way appropriate in this context. Note that I’m not saying rappers shouldn’t rap about rape. I don’t believe in taboos. But I also don’t believe in things “not mattering” because they’re intended to be funny or “ridiculous.” It still matters to me; it obviously still matters to a lot of people who’ve posted here. So if you’re going to talk about rape, you’d better mean it. I don’t mean literally intend to do what you say (rape Harvard women like myself); but there had better be a meaning. What is the meaning of this rap? If it’s a satire, what is it satirizes? And what is its point? In the context of the Harvard-Yale rivalry it seems like it has no meaning beyond dissing Harvard and pumping up Yale. If that’s the intent, the implications are terrifying. Does that idea– IDEA, not plan, I know as well as anybody what is and isn’t intended by the song– pump up Yale? Because it doesn’t matter whether that means you’ll do it or not; the point is that if threats of rape get Yalies– or any other Ivy leaguers, I know we’re all roughly the same (socio-economicaly diverse!) group– excited, then even we in the ivy tower are living in a world of male dominance through violence, in which women’s rights are discounted and/or ridiculed. I’ve never believed more in the need for the Women’s Center here at Harvard than at this moment. Say what you want about the artistry of the verse– it doesn’t matter; content eclipses form, almost always; say what you want about how to ‘make it’ as a rapper– I don’t care about your individual lack of spine, what worries me is that performing songs with verses like this can help you make it anywhere. But please, do tell me why you put, or allowed, that lyric; what does it mean? What is the significance of “pushing” that boundary? Because if, as I suspect, it’s just an imitation of what you’ve heard, a stock insult on the masculinity of Harvard men that they’ll sit by and allow “their” women to be raped (since aren’t well all really just Radcliffe girls, the little sisters of the men who make up “Harvard”?), then I think all your arguments about how it’s important to push boundaries and how we shouldn’t judge you for your backgrounds are insignificant, even though you’re right on both counts. I don’t think the people who’ve posted here were really judging you on your assumed backgrounds; they were just trying to express their anger and they jumped on something close to hand, the perpetual mockery of Ivy types, by Ivies and non-Ivies alike, based on the idea that we’ve all lead cushy lives and purchased our SAT scores. They were writing off the cuff without taking the time for deep reflection. Oh well. I still fault them less than those of you who worked on that song, who actually spent time and effort perfecting it, and still chose an attack that was close to hand, uncreative and unthoughtful– and also deeply, deeply offensive.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:48 am
Grand Master, Nemesis the Venomous, MC Plátano, MC Matador:
I’ve been reading through your comments and, irregardless of which Ivy League schools you were accepted to, I am forced to conclude that you are just not very smart at all. Your attempted defenses of the rape line are sad and disingenuous. As has been pointed out above, this “selective sensititivy” argument you now seem to be clinging to displays either an enormous ignorance of or total indifference to the incidence of sexual assault on college campuses. Moreover, your attempts to justify yourselves by referencing satirical and hip hop traditions are just pathetic. To pull off satire requires a level of intelligence and talent which you manifestly do not have. To paraphrase a comment above, all you managed to do was to be grossly offensive without being the least bit funny. Trust me, the more you try to defend this shit, the stupider you look. Just apologize and take down the song before this gets a whole lot worse for you and your school.
November 17th, 2006 at 3:55 am
got ‘em , BITCH!
November 17th, 2006 at 9:23 am
too incensed to keep my mouth properly shut–thanks for your thoughts. I’m thinking about them.
November 17th, 2006 at 10:45 am
I’m not apologizing for shit. No one has quoted my lines (the verse that starts with “we rape and pillage Cambridge). That may be because no one can hear the first line, or as I felt when I wrote it, “rape and pillage” is different from rape. Whatever the case, I feel that I have nothing to apologize for. Platano apologized for the line, and we write our own shit, so the more you fucks talk about it, the stupider you look. Plus, content and form can outweigh each other at different times. Sometimes impact is enough. If I had to agree with the sentiments of every musician entirely, I wouldn’t listen to music, because it would be a waste of my time. How many rappers are homophobes and misoginists? A shitload. If you love rap, you have to come to accept that even your idols will say shit that offends you and you disagree with. Too bad, its the way of the world
November 17th, 2006 at 11:00 am
Nemesis the Venomous: Nobody idolizes MC Platano, so no one has to accept the offensive shit he speaks. And, lest you need this pointed out to you, “Fuck Harvard 2006″ was a collective effort that you put your name to, thus you share the responsibility. How much slack would we cut a guitarist who played on a Neo-Nazi track and then claimed he didn’t share the sentiments expressed in the lyrics? Not much, I’m guessing. You knew the lyrics of the rap you were putting your name to, maybe had an inkling of the offense and outrage it would cause, and signed off on it anyway. Fuck you for that.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:08 am
As a female, having lived in New Haven and now living in New York, I have had to significantly alter my behavior in ways that no man can possibly comprehend to avoid violence towards myself. No man would ever understand the vulnerability women face EVERY DAY based upon their inability to physically match a male. Does it cross your mind that a man would put a knife to your throat as you’re exiting up the subway steps late at night, push you in an alley, and hold you down as he rapes you? Probably not, because most rape occurs against women, and not too many women prey on men. Just because a million rappers talk about violence to women doesn’t make it “ok”. Who cares if it’s what Eminem does for attention? That doesn’t make it conscionable… that just makes it sad, and disgusting, and unfortunate. As a society, we’re hopefully working towards ending these types of negative occurences. When I left the “Yale Bubble” (trust me, no amount of interaction with New Haven will ever erase the Yale bubble–there are too many millions of dollars and iron gates preventing that) I realized that a lot of what I thought was funny and acceptable was just the opposite…just a thought–maybe your moral compass will shift after graduation, and you too may see things differently. I don’t know if you were offended by any of what the Yale Record published recently, but for many, this is equivalent.
You claim the lines about rape are “jokes” but i dare you to ever talk about molesting and killing/raping children. not such a joke anymore? why not? it’s sad that rape of women is so commonly accepted in society that some deem it appropriate to “satirize” it, or use it for attention. i think the rappers need to respect the fact that other people have different lines of acceptability, and accept that they may have crossed it, and move on.
Also for whichever “MC” claimed that he didn’t condone the lyrics–it’s a lot less effective on all fronts if you try and “save yourself” by condemning other members of your group. If you’re part of one clique then you’d better be prepared to take your share of responsibility.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:41 am
I apologized for the line and what may have offended or hurt people, which is a claim of responsibility. You can only apologize for something that you take responsibility for, otherwise it is meaningless. I referred to my own and other MCs’ lines in what I said, and just because I don’t appreciate or condone certain things said in the song I participated in doesn’t mean I’m attempting to “save myself.” I accept that I crossed the line in some places, and not in other places. You asked me to move on; I have only, in continuing to read this discussion and respond, attempted to appreciate people’s feedback and try and respond with thought and concern.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:45 am
g: WHO.int (world health organization); they’re about equal but overweight people are on the rise while underweight are still declining.
about 1.2 billion of each; since 1980 underweight has declined to about 1.1 while overweight surges surges surges, mainly in rich developed countries.
I don’t go to Yale.
really, it only takes 10 seconds on google to find any number of sources all citing the same who facts (1.2 billion of each, but then estimates go either direction for both) -> “population+global+overweight+greater+underweight+1.2+billion” is a good query.
amusingly, today ‘obesity’ is on the main homepage for the WHO.
Anyways in 2000 they were about equal (http://www.worldwatch.org/node/1672) but since then the tables have turned and the overweight are totally winning in the race to… have more of themselves, or something.
Also, in some societies, the % overweight is the majority. Woo.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
Actually, the “scoreboard” had nothing to do with football (or absurd one-sided “rap” battles – one-sided in that Harvard doesn’t care).
Had you clicked the link, you’d see that for every 100 students accepted to both schools, 65 choose Harvard and 35 Yale. So you can keep New Haven.
But hey, keep up the good work on your street cred. I hear 50 Cent checks this blog all the time.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:50 pm
In all seriousness, can someone tell me why someone accepted to both schools would chose Yale? It just doesn’t make any sense to me. About the only thing the school has going for it over Harvard is its proximity to NYC. Academically, its no longer the No. 2 school in the country anymore, not even close, and New Haven makes Cambridge look like Santa Monica. So, seriously, why would anyone – let alone as many as 35 out of 100 – pick Yale? Someone please help me here. This is not a jibe at Yale. I really want to know.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
confused, you are a fuckin moron. everyone who is digressing into this harvard is so much better than yale nonsense is destroying what the people who actually are upset about the lyrics are trying to accomplish. but just to reply to you and that asshole hotbox, the numbers mean nothing. harvard has a better matric rate simply because it is older and the name will always carry more weight. yale is consistently rated a better place for undergraduate student life and general happiness. you want an example? let’s start with the fact that harvard is making people write essays in order to have alcohol free tailgates where yale alum aren’t invited inside. now there’s a reason right there i might choose yale over harvard you uptight pieces of shit.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
There has been enough bitterness on this thread already, so I’ll not add to it, but I’ll just say spend some time on both campuses and you’ll probably see the difference. While both campuses have some bright people, there are different cultures to each place. I wouldn’t think quite so linearly about #1, #2 schools, etc when you’re talking about Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and a few others. These schools are all excellent, but certain ones just suit some much better than others.
November 17th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
Harvard and Yale (especially yale) both fuckin’ suck, BROWN is the best school in the nation, period.
November 17th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Lol, why especially yale? For that parentheses alone, I wouldn’t blame for you nothing.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:45 pm
I have no idea what this essay nonsense is about, but I’d gladly write one to keep Yalies out of my tailgate
November 17th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
I’d like to thank MC Matador for at least taking people’s concerns seriously and putting some thought into his answers.
If people are responding directly to the lines about raping women and less to the other misogynistic lines, it’s only because those lines are the most obviously disturbing. It doesn’t make them hypocrites. I like a good satire, and I like any satire that makes fun of Ivy League kids, but this is NOT clearly satire, and even if it is, that doesn’t exonerate it. Just because it’s not literally true doesn’t make it effective satire.
People react more viscerally to the rape lyrics than to the murder lyrics because the evil of murder is less controversial, not because murder itself is less traumatizing. Duh, murder is bad and scary. I think the lyrics about shooting people, dropping bombs, etc are dumb (yeah, I get them, I just don’t think they’re so clever), but they are less outrageous because murder isn’t something that its victims still get blamed for, that half the population fears disproportionately and regularly, that is constantly downplayed in society. I’d ask you to consider carefully whether you would have included those lyrics if a woman you were close to had been recently raped, and if not, to ask yourself why.
This isn’t (just) a matter of looking out for rape victims’ feelings, though. It’s about taking responsibility for not perpetuating a casual attitude towards (and glorification of) rape. It’s about recognizing that when it comes to sexual assault, men are members of a privileged group, and are therefore not in a position to irresponsibly make light of it — whether “satirically” or otherwise.
If your mission is just to create controversy, congratulations. But if you want to be productive about it, it would be so great to put your obvious talent towards creating a controversy that actually has some positive value.
November 18th, 2006 at 12:24 am
My goodness, “yalie”. You really are insecure. I was asking an honest question. So, if “yale is consistently rated a better place for undergraduate student life and general happiness”, what the hell happened to you?
November 18th, 2006 at 1:46 am
I agree I’m an asshole, but that doesn’t make that NYT story I linked to any less true. Losers.
November 18th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Gabe is the man.
November 18th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
I think this conversation for the most part has been very civilized and intelligent. I think that the yalies who made the song have done their best to defend their creation, though their argument seems to be a little flawed. I think the line is very offensive and shouldn’t have been in the song, but I must say that while I do sympathize with the emotion and respect the personal nature of a lot of the posts decrying the use of line, I think that they are also flawed. Many of those who argue against the yalie’s contention that their lyrics are satrical say that the lyrics cannot be satirical because pulling off satire “requires a level of intelligence and talent which you manifestly do not have,” or something along those lines. This is a silly argument which assumes quite a bit about these students; most of them seem to have proven themselves to be capable of forming fairly complex defenses of their work, even if you disagree with their defenses. I also think that in the grand scheme of things, their song is a satire of popular rap music, which is sadly filled with references to the intention of raping women. I believe that rap music is definitely an art form, and I take particular offense to the notion that all rap music is simply about killing and raping people. There is plenty of rap music out there today that is very popular and does not talk about women in a mysoginistic way. My problem with the argument is that it doesn’t seem like the point of this tradition (I must confess I haven’t heard the other songs) is to satirize the rap industry, but to satirize Harvard. I think most of us, at any Ivy, can enjoy a good natured jab at the many stereotypes that exist. On that point, I started writing this post with the intention of discussing all the people who insist on engaging in this moronic Harvard is better than Yale, Yale is better than Harvard bickering. The bottom line is that people who turn an intelligent conversation about a very serious issue (although the cultural impact of this whole debate will undoubtedly be quite small) into a stupid discussion of which school is better embarrass anyone who goes to any Ivy league institution. We are already tagged as a bunch of arrogant assholes and looked at as overprivileged idiots with family connections and although some of us are, the vast majority are not. Engaging in this kind of idiocy just furthers that reputation. All the colleges in the Ivy league and scores more from outside are excellent institutions. Shut your stupid mouths and stop referencing all these ridiculous ratings which are entirely meaningless. Anyone who applied anywhere based upon its rating in U.S. News and World Report or any other newspaper, college guide, etc. is selling themselves short and demeaning those of us who apply because we truly feel the school is a fit for us. Those of you who view your education in this way don’t deserve to walk the halls of the fine institutions you attend.
November 18th, 2006 at 8:17 pm
Grow up
November 19th, 2006 at 3:47 am
I chose Yale over Harvard, and the Harvard kids that are posting on here denigrating Yale solely on the basis of academic ratings are fully vindicating my decision. The bottom line is that you have to go where you’re going to be happiest, and for me, that place was Yale. Why do 65% of cross admits choose Harvard? Here’s my theory: 65% of cross-admits have spent their lives cooped up in their rooms studying so that they could be number one at everything in life. The only thing that these kids derive happiness from is being able to point to some rankings as proof that they’re better than other people. I guess they all made the right choice. Also, New Haven isn’t for everyone, I’ll admit. I personally think it’s a great town–the food is excellent, it fosters a great sense of community at Yale, and it keeps you aware of the harsh realities of life that some people in this world have to face. Really, what do we have that Cambridge doesn’t? A 2 story Abercrombie? But again, if kids really love Boston, then I guess Harvard would be a better decision.
But the bottom line is this: people generally go where they’ll be happiest. If some people are happiest when they can say they’re better than everyone else and point to US News to prove it, then that’s what works for them. And if they legitimately love Boston as a town so much that they’ll overlook other factors, or if they love the campus atmosphere at Harvard, that’s awesome for them. I didn’t. And the rest of the 35% of cross admits didn’t. That is our choice, based on our thoughts and knowledge of ourselves. Turning down Harvard was one of the toughest decisions I’ve ever made, as was turning down Georgetown–there were things that really drew me to both places and made me think that I’d be very, very happy there. But in the end, I know that I made the right decision, and I’m surprised that “confused” can’t understand it. I wonder where his or her priorities were during the decision process.
Also, I think that it’s funny that nobody has even brought up the female singer at the end kinda strikes me as odd. If the song is so patently misogynistic, why would any self-respecting woman ever sing on it? I don’t think the singer hates herself, however.
November 19th, 2006 at 9:15 am
The Abercrombie closed. It has been replaced by Citizens Bank, a marginal improvement. Cambridge and Boston are not two of the world’s greatest cities – not unless you grew up there – but college can be a depressing time and I would expect most people to find Cambridge slightly less depressing than New Haven. Hence part of the confusion. Nevertheless, I admire your commitment to remain “aware of the harsh realities of life that some people in this world have to face.”
I don’t know much about the campus atmosphere at Yale, but it is interesting that you noticed a difference. I wouldn’t have expect that difference, as the schools attract what I would imagine are very similar students (let’s be honest here, Yale is no UofI and we can expect that probably almost as many Yale kids as Harvard kids have “spent their lives cooped up in their rooms studying so that they could be number one at everything in life”). That’s not to deny that difference, but just to wonder where it comes from.
What makes the decision a little irrational (in the strictest economic sense of the word) is that the general public expects cross-admits to accept Harvard over Yale. People generally assume that those that went to Yale didn’t get in to Harvard, which affects their subjective assessment of your abilities, and thereby may cost you jobs etc. People will also assume that the Harvard students received a better education than their counterparts at Yale, which may or may not be true depending on what you feel determines the quality of education. Either way, the potential is there, at least, for it to hurt you, maybe a little bit, here and there. Is that fair? Should the world work that way? Of course not, but it does.
Finally, people did bring up the fact that a woman sings on the track. Of course, few people brought it up because very few people could stomach listening to much beyond about the two minute mark. Your final two sentences are just ridiculous.
November 19th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
Still Confused, your last posting is just ridiculous. I cannot believe that you have the audacity to state that the general public assumes that Yale students did not get into Harvard and that going to Yale may cost one jobs in the future. You must have no sense of life in the outside world if you truly believe that. The truth of the matter is that the number of people in this country who have attended Yale and/or Harvard makes up a ridiculously small fraction of the American population. As a result, we are often not even competing for the same jobs, at least not in some cases. I don’t know much about most fields, including the finance industry and job opportunities at companies like Goldman Sachs. I had an internship this past summer at a pharmaceutical company, however, and was one of five ivy league students of at least one hundred interns. I was the only Yalie, and there was one Harvard student. Most of the interns attended local colleges that aren’t even ranked in the top tier. In the real world, not everyone cares about the school you attend. I admit that most people are impressed by Harvard and Yale students only because of the college that we attend. I am glad that it does impress them. I think you fail to realize, however, that most people are not more impressed by one school than another. I had a job a few summers ago at which my boss kept forgetting that I go to Yale but would rather tell people that I attend Harvard. You may skew this to imply that Yale is not even as memorable as Harvard, which is why he couldn’t even remember the name of my school but rather thought of yours instead. The way that I see it, to many of the less privileged people out there, our schools are indistinguishable. He couldn’t have cared less whether I attended Harvard or Yale. He wasn’t saying Harvard because he thought Harvard as being better than Yale. He would mention Harvard because he equated that name (which is ingrained into the popular culture as the best school in the nation) with intelligence and a great education. Obviously, he attributed Yale with those qualities as well, otherwise he wouldn’t have confused the two schools. By the way, since you care so much about rankings, I’m surprised that you have not checked U.S. News this year and found that you are no longer tied with Princeton for #1. You have now fallen to #2. I guess you’re going to lose a few jobs to Princeton students as a result. Seriously, if you haven’t realized it now, the name of your school is only going to get you to the interview stage. If you believe that you will beat out Yale, Princeton, UPenn, Duke, MIT, and other graduates of top 10 schools for jobs just because of your school, you are gonig to be in for a terrible surprise after you graduate. The interview stage is where the jobs will be won or lost. What do you think the interview is there for? So they can meet you in person and tell you to your face that you got the job because you are a Havard graduate? They actually want to get to know who you are and what you will bring to the job besides a B.A. from Harvard University. Besides, not all of the executives out there know which school is currently ranked #1 or #2. Many executives didn’t even attend Harvard or Yale, so they may simply be surprised that you attended a big name school that is probably ranked higher than where they went. The school that you attended doesn’t make you better than other out there, though. You embarass me and many of us other Ivy League students who care more about getting our educations than our degrees and excelling in more than academics in life. You are why the world views us as arrogant people who look to statistics for self-validation. I, my friend, realize that I will not have my successes handed to me as a result of my undergraduate institution. I realize that I will be competing against several state-school graduates and graduates of schools that are not in the top 10 when I interview for medical schools, residency, and jobs afterward. I do not let Yale ’s ranking determine the value of my potential and successes. I have pride in my school and my accomplishment in reaching such an amazing institution, but I would never devalue other students because they are not in the top 3 schools. You must also remember that there are other people out there who are as intelligent as, if not smarter than, we who could have attended Harvard or Yale but are at state schools because of cost issues or any of innumerable other reasons. Those in the real world know and realize this and that the school that one attended for an undergraduate education does not define one’s abilities. Attending Harvard or Yale may give us points, but it doesn’t win us the game. For your own sake, you may want to keep your blatantly pompous ideas to yourself when interacting with non-ivy leaguers.
November 19th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
By the way, Still Confused, I think we’d all appreciate if you’d stop posting such arguments on this blog. This is not at all what the discussion should be, as several posters have already commented. I, myself, did not want to get involved in the topic, but I just thought that someone should set you straight. If all subsequent postings could be about the issue of the song and its content, that would be greatly appreciated.
November 20th, 2006 at 9:03 am
I didn’t attend an Ivy League school for college and I have ample experience in the real world that allows me to speak with a degree of informed objectivity. I don’t have any interest in this one way or the other, but the decision doesn’t make a lot of sense to me nevertheless (and that confusion has nothing to do with meaningless rankings by US News & World Report and others). If you’re comfortable and happy with your decision, that’s great – I’d try to sound a little less defensive about it, though. Making all sorts of offensive remarks is never a good way to signal your sense of happiness or self-security.
November 20th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
I think this comment-heavy post as much as any other makes clear the need for a comment form which is smart enough to interpret double line breaks in the form as new
in the output, since these giant paragraph bombs don’t cut it. Kyle, another thing for you to fix!
(or just put some handy little html injector buttons or something and make it clear)
November 20th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
well I just wanted to say that MK’s music is definetely worth listening to… Stylistic, pure, but it makes a point… you’re very skilled, “MK”…playing the game how it has to be played is by no means selling out. You should perform some of your own pieces once in a while.
November 20th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
We love our school. If you attack it, damn straight we’ll get defensive. According to your logic, if someone calls your mother a whore and you get defensive about it, your mother must be a whore.
I’m a little sick of people questioning my decision to go to Yale over Harvard. Ironically enough, the people who seem to have questioned it the least are people with Ivy League degrees–the exact people who would be most familiar with the two schools.
Before you start shooting off about how “that the general public expects cross-admits to accept Harvard over Yale,” you need to understand that the “general public” probably hasn’t visited both schools and isn’t familiar with the differences between the undergraduate programs at the two schools. Some examples: the “general public” probably doesn’t know about the differences between the Residential College and House systems (which, despite what some people will tell you, do have some notable differences) and probably doesn’t realize that Yale only has about as many Grad students as Undergrads, while Harvard has twice as many Grad students as Undergrads (it doesn’t take a genius to realize where each University is focusing its resources).
But anyway, the point is that our defensiveness doesn’t come as a result of insecurity in our decision. We’re just sick of people who aren’t even that familiar with the non-geographic differences between the two schools questioning us.
November 21st, 2006 at 10:29 am
umm that’s just disgusting. sick. what are all the “head” references and “cunt” and horribly disgusting genital mentions doing in a rival song? You make rap out to be a disgrace. That one kid has a pretty good style, but then he goes and ruins it at the end talking about “giving head until the dick’s dead”… which is probably what, like 2 seconds for you? Thought so.
November 21st, 2006 at 4:12 pm
this song is a disgrace to yale. Please continue to sell yourself out, all you talented amateur rappers, and see where the fuck that gets you in life. i am so glad to have amazing friends at yale who exemplify more integrity and demonstrate more respect to others than all of you. If you all want to be different and stand out, get your asses up and do sth meaningful. There are kids deprived of opportunity all over the US and across the globe, so maybe you might want to consider investing some of your energy into helping others, instead of producing shit like this. Hip hop or not, you’re not contributing to anything, just free-riding and bull-shitting your way out of the shithole you dug for yourself with that first amendment.
November 21st, 2006 at 4:24 pm
I apologize to those who I offended with my verse (the 4th). It was meant to be entirely in jest. I did not properly consider the ramifications of writing and recording these lines, and I certainly did not consider the results and implications of doing so in the context of that song; that is, I did not think through how deciding to take part in this song would reflect on my own artistry. After thorough consideration, I know that I would rather have not participated, for the reason that this song does not represent me as an artist, technically or thematically. Although I collaborated with the group in this song, this statement is individual and posted without any consultation with them–I speak for myself here, as I have throughout, without collaboration when it comes to my opinions and feelings regarding the recording. Once again, thank you for your discussion and input; it has helped me realize that although I am still torn about certain issues that have been brought up, I must lean heavily to the side of regret and remorse, and hope to remain faithful to my own art from this point forward.
November 23rd, 2006 at 3:56 am
i just hope “your own art from this point forward” is better than a bunch of vulgar words strung together in a desperate plea for publicity. freedom of expression has its limits, and as you have read in the paper about kramer’s racist rant (and i hope you have), you ought to take that into serious consideration before even putting your pen to the paper for your next piece. For the sake of your school and your own integrity, consider some serious reflection on how you define yourself as an artist.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:24 am
Can’t stand this vulgarity, go kill yaselvez
December 4th, 2006 at 3:17 am
How did what began as a forum for the discussion of a controversial line in a rap song end up as a fight between six year olds claiming “no, my school is better?” Ultimately I see this fancy rhetoric as a disguise for immaturity that can never be rectified by an Ivy league education. Grow up and instead of spewing hateful words at one another take a real look at the violence and tumult that plague this world, then do something about it.
December 4th, 2006 at 3:18 am
How did what began as a forum for the discussion of a controversial line in a rap song end up as a fight between six year olds claiming “no, my school is better?” Ultimately I see this fancy rhetoric as a disguise for immaturity that can never be rectified by an Ivy league education. Grow up and instead of spewing hateful words at one another take a real look at the violence and tumult that plague this world, then do something about it.
February 9th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Hey grandmaster, you may be right about some real rap groups, including little brother, being comprised of college graduates. But here is the kicker, they are black. Get your chink ass off the fucking track and go back to eating won tons off your moms yellow pussy you stupid fucking fake ass gangster. And dont ever let the word woman back in your mouth, you filthy pile of shit scum bag.
April 26th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Reality check. I was born and raised in East LA. Met real gang bangers. Didn’t much care for them. I went to Yale and played in The Game. The Yale acceptance is a privilege that leads to greater things. Rape? Murder? You don’t need Yale to do those things. You only need a megadose of stupidity. Apparently, you need a lobotomy to brag about it. I’ll give you guys the benefit of the doubt and say you were just kidding. MC Matador, I hope you were sincere in your apology and I hope your buddies do the same. As I get older, I become more and more grateful for my Yale education. I try my best not to embarass the school or my classmates. Maintaining the honor of my teammates is paramount. You guys have no idea what damage you have caused to the school and yourselves. Yale can survive the damge because of the overwhelming number of students who do not screw up. If I were you, I would pray that no one considers your artistry when you apply for jobs, grad school, etc.
April 26th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Reality check. I was born and raised in East LA. Met real gang bangers. Didn’t much care for them. I went to Yale and played in The Game. The Yale acceptance is a privilege that leads to greater things. Rape? Murder? You don’t need Yale to do those things. You only need a megadose of stupidity. Apparently, you need a lobotomy to brag about it. I’ll give you guys the benefit of the doubt and say you were just kidding. MC Matador, I hope you were sincere in your apology and I hope your buddies do the same. As I get older, I become more and more grateful for my Yale education. I try my best not to embarass the school or my classmates. Maintaining the honor of my teammates is paramount. You guys have no idea what damage you have caused to the school and yourselves. Yale can survive the damage because of the overwhelming number of students who do not screw up. If I were you, I would pray that no one considers your artistry when you apply for jobs, grad school, etc.